Mobile menu

Pages in topic:   [1 2 3 4] >
和为贵
Thread poster: David Rockell
David Rockell
Chinese to English
Sep 16, 2002

我建议在这属于我们大家的空间里,各位朋友不要用像“这些洋人”和其它显然不妥的词语。 如果你不同意某人的意见,完全可以用礼貌的用语表示自己的看法。没有必要睚眦必报,排斥异己。冰棒之争令人心寒。

Direct link Reply with quote
 

Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:26
English to Chinese
+ ...
致戴维 Sep 16, 2002

尊敬的洋译友:(请注意:此处用“洋”而非“外国”,凭心而论,我是没把您当外人。)



信手拾得几个带“洋”字的美称词,仅供您参考:

1。洋人(外国人,多指西洋人)

2。洋媳妇(外国媳妇)

3。洋丈夫(外国丈夫)

4。洋气(时髦)

5。洋学位(在国外拿的学位。不瞒您说,本人四年前还一直为自己无洋学位自惭形秽呢!)

6。洋火(火柴)

7。洋娃娃(尤指漂亮的娃娃或玩具等)

8。洋装(西装)

9. 留洋(留学)

10。发洋财(......)



倒是“我们这些洋人”在北美汉英翻译界的地位急待提高,这样就不会再有所谓的“冰棒之争”发生了......

当然,有朝一日,若有人登出“洋人与狗不得入内”的牌子羞辱您或其他洋译友,我定会为您老打抱不平的!







一周愉快!





BBW





Direct link Reply with quote
 

Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:26
English to Chinese
+ ...
"古为今用,洋为中用" Sep 16, 2002

洋咖啡固然醒脑提神,酽香迷人;但中国茶独具之清新醇香令我久久不能忘怀。虽已阔别故乡四、五载,但每次饮完一杯洋咖啡,我都会将它与龙井茶作一番比较:同属提神饮品,为何茶香是如此令人心醉与神往?



很欣赏您“古为今用”,借孔子之语“礼之用,和为贵”以倡导“和睦、和平、和谐”之学术气氛,更欣赏您能在中文论坛用流畅的中文提出问题。在此,我也引用孟子的“天时不如地利,地利不如人和”与您的“和为贵”之引语遥相呼应。常言道:“家和万事兴”。 宇宙如此浩淼,学海如此深奥;世界如此广博,心地如此开阔......天地之间,何处容不下一个“和”字?



诚然,“古为今用”为世人所称道,而“洋为中用”也正是一代又一代莘莘学子飘洋过海的初衷。“他山之石,可以攻玉”。



Regards,



Betty

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-09-18 18:01 ]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Kevin Yang  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:26
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Respect is valued by the people all over the world. Sep 16, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-09-16 05:50, David Rockell wrote:

我建议在这属于我们大家的空间里,各位朋友不要用像“这些洋人”和其它显然不妥的词语。 如果你不同意某人的意见,完全可以用礼貌的用语表示自己的看法。没有必要睚眦必报,排斥异己。冰棒之争令人心寒。





Hey, David, Stranger!



Long time, no “see”! I was so glad to hear from you again.



After I read your message here, I went back to the Kudoz question “棒棒冰” and read all the messages posted there. I was very embarrassed that Betty could talk like that. Her approach to handle opposed opinions is definitely wrong and unacceptable. I had not seen those unpleasant notes when I was there last time. It looks like she added them in afterwards.



To be able to show respect to the others who have different opinions is a test of civilization. To live and educated in the Western world where democracy is highly valued, I would expect the people here could do better to demonstrate tolerance while handling the opposed opinions. I do not mind someone to be aggressive in presenting his or her opinion, but I DO mind such a person tries to win by attacking the people who think differently by using the derogatory and insulting words. Respect is valued by the people all over the world regardless their country of origin. As a translator, the artist of words, we should learn from each other because everyone has something valuable to offer and always there is a reason behind it. When you cannot respect people, you will not get respect back. It is just as simple as that.



Thank you, David, for bring this matter to our attention!



Kevin



[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-09-16 19:58 ]

Direct link Reply with quote
 

Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:26
English to Chinese
+ ...
? Sep 16, 2002

Quote:
I was very embarrassed that Betty could talk like that. Her approach to handle opposed opinions is definitely wrong and unacceptable.




Kevin, you were embarrassed? In what way were you involved in this matter? Since Chinese is also your native language, let\'s talk in Chinese later on. At this very moment, I am really very busy...Pls. do me a favor to find out the meaning of Bang-bang Bing ...Thanks. (As I mentioned above, \"yang2\" here is a commendatory term...)



Best regards,



Betty

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-09-16 21:13 ]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Kevin Yang  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:26
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
+ ...
It seems you are trying to dig yourself out of this! Sep 16, 2002

Betty,



David is absolutely right. I hope you can read his message and mine again instead of trying to dig yourself out like that. If I were you, I would make a public apology.



I just read all the messages here as well as those posted under the Kudoz question “棒棒冰”. I was embarrassed because the ofensive language used in that Kudoz answer came out of a person like you. I was shocked to read the notes you added to your answer by calling the foreigners are pretending to know something they don’t and such of their practice made you noxious. What was that all about? Are you thinking academically or took it personal?



As matter of fact, “Popsicle” was my suggestion! Not theirs. I would appreciate if you can direct your unfriendly comments to me, not our friends who are studying Chinese as a second language. I will be happy to debate with you myself. I hope your aggressiveness can bring out my “bitter widow” side.



It is too bad that you could not appreciate my suggestion “Popsicle”. I was simply trying to use a product name that the westerners can relate to. I am not sure what kind of research you did, but I cannot agree with your translation “Bong Bong Ice”. The reason behind it is that “Bong Bong” sounds very much like “bon bon” which means “butt”, “ass” or “屁股”. It became even more popularly used in America after Ricky Martin released his hit song “Shake Your Bon Bon”. I remembered that a “foreigner” translator sincerely suggested that if this is going to be used as a product label, someone definite should check with the native English speakers. How true is that! The poor asker Zhoudan failed to do that and took your suggestion. I wonder what she was thinking! Now, I simply cannot wait to see “Butt Ice” will be soon “Made in China” and be available in all the supermarkets here. By the way, the word “butt” seems not in your vocabulary, because the other day, there was a Kudoz question asked how to say “butt” in Chinese, someone answered as “wine barrel” or something like that. I was surprised to see you agreed with it. I hope now you know.



As a translator, we should have the capability to respect others, especially those who have different opinions. We should do better in this regard because we are the artist of words. You certainly are welcome to debate with the others on what is the most appropriate translation, but it is definitely a WRONG attitude by putting them down simply because you cannot appreciate what they suggest. When you are correct, let your answer and fact speak, not the aggressive attack. As we all know when one cannot show respect to others, he or she will certainly not get any respect back.



Another note, there is no restriction here in terms of what language should be used. People can freely select any language they want to use as long as they can reach their maximum targeted readers. We can use whatever we feel comfortable with. To me, I like English because I can type English faster and do not need to worry about the coding issues.



Kevin



[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-09-18 14:56 ]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:26
English to Chinese
+ ...
"Bonbon" is a good name! Sep 16, 2002

In French, the word \"bonbon\" means \"candy\" , which is also sweet and delicious. As Bangbangbing is pleasantly sweet, why not call it \"Bong-bong Ice\"? Zhou Dan\'s choice is correct. I will get back to this topic tomorrow(not sure)...(zhen1mang2!!!)



P.S. Kevin, thanks for reminding me to be more polite next time. As a moderator, you have done a wonderful job; David, from your excellent written Chinese, I don\'t doubt at all that you can understand my compliments to you in my Chinese posts above. Thanks for your frankness. Hope to talk to you in Chinese again in this thread. I am really busy with a new project...



Regards



Betty





[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-09-17 00:02 ]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:26
English to Chinese
+ ...
KudoZ Answer Sep 17, 2002

Basically, as a noun, the word \"butt\" has the following meanings:



1. a push or blow made with the head or horns

2. a simple joint in which two pieces of wood etc. are bonded without overlapping.

3. an object of ridicule etc.

4. a mound behind a target to stop stray bullets etc.

5. a shooting range

6. a target

7. a low wall or mound of earth concealing a bird hunter; a blind

8. the thicker end, esp. of a tool or a weapon(gun butt).

9. A cut of a pork from the shoulder

10. The stub of a cigar or a cigarette

11. (slang) a cigarette

12. (N. Amer. Slang) the buttocks

13. the trunk of a tree, esp. the part just above the ground

14. a large cask for wine or ale

15. a former unit of measure equal to two hogsheads.

...



The original KudoZ question is \"...\"butt\": I need it where you can pronounce it. Not in symbols. And in Mandarin, not in Cantonese. Thnx.... Asker Michael Sep 11 12:41am \"



The answers I agreed to are \"pronunciation: da4 jiu3 tong3\"(大酒桶), which means \"a large cask for wine or ale\" , and \"Xiao(4)Bing(3)(笑柄)\", which means \"an object of ridicule etc.\" These are very nice answers(see above). I still agree with these answerers without reservation.



P.S. Li Bin\'s answer is \"pi4gu (Buttocks); Yan1 Di4 (Cigarette end)\". I did not give him an \"agree\", but that does not necessarily mean I disagree with him.(I simply forgot to give him an \"agree\". Sorry, Dr. LI!). Also, thanks again for reminding me, Kevin.







Regards,





Betty























[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-09-17 16:25 ]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:26
English to Chinese
+ ...
To Mr. Rockell Sep 23, 2002

Quote:
我建议在这属于我们大家的空间里,各位朋友不要用像“这些洋人”和其它显然不妥的词语。 如果你不同意某人的意见,完全可以用礼貌的用语表示自己的看法。没有必要睚眦必报,排斥异己。冰棒之争令人心寒。




尊敬的戴维:希望您既能提出问题,也能解决问题。但愿我以上的回答能使您感到不再心寒。若还有别的疑问,请及时提出。谢谢。



Betty


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:26
English to Chinese
+ ...
Let's say "CHEESE!" Sep 24, 2002

Quote:
As a translator, we should have the capability to respect others, especially those who have different opinions. We should do better in this regard because we are the artist of words. You certainly are welcome to debate with the others on what is the most appropriate translation, but it is definitely a WRONG attitude by putting them down simply because you cannot appreciate what they suggest. When you are correct, let your answer and fact speak, not the aggressive attack. As we all know when one cannot show respect to others, he or she will certainly not get any respect back.





Kevin,



Being aggressive has never been my cup of tea. On the contrary, I enjoy wearing a sweet smile each and every day. I respect everyone the way (s)he respects me; I cherish the world the way she blesses me... \"Life is beautiful! La vie est belle!\"



Nonetheless, just as you two have noticed, unpleasant things do occur occasionally. For instance, if you go to the \"Bangbangbing\" section and trace back all the way down to the messages along with the notes, you will clearly see who was the first offender and who was the one that was inexplicably offended!!! When those humiliating words were all of a sudden thrown upon you followed by self-contradictory remarks like \"I don\'t mean to be rude\", how would you feel, Mr. Moderator? Would you still believe that this person did not mean to be rude? You would instinctively ask yourself : \"I don\'t know this person at all, why is he so rude to me?\" Now you may see, if I did say something like \"I feel sick of self-conceited ones\", this was uttered due to the insulting comments which I received ahead of any other person!



Yes, on that split second, I felt sick!!! I really felt sick!! I could not help being sick!!! Smashing the computer? No, it\'s worth over 3000 dollars; Yelling out to the street? No, I was not insane by any means. Feeling sick and writing back in words was the right response. Let me ask this offender: What is Bangbangbing? Do you still think it is Bingbang(popsicle)? If not(Of course not, because \"popsicle\" means \"Bingbang\"or \"Binggun\" which does have a stick, whereas \"Bangbangbing\"is usually in the shape of a sausage and stored in a narrow plastic bag without a stick), then why not call it \"Bong Bong Ice\"(or \"Bang Bang Ice\")? If you had proposed an answer better than \"popsicle\" or \"Bong Bong Ice\", the questioner would surely have awarded the KudoZ points to you, as I know she has an excellent command of both English and Chinese and unquestionably possesses the basic ability to judge for herself which is the best answer.



Certainly, I would not arbitrarily assume \"Bong Bong Ice\" to be the best English equivalent of \"Bangbangbing\", there might be better versions... but before the question was coming to a close, Ms. Zhou did add some notes there asking for any better suggestions. Every reader could clearly see that she was calling up the native English speakers to give out something which could be at least more idiomatic than mine. But what she had been long awaiting was silence. Then, what could she do? Her only choice was to choose among all the answers the most helpful one which could at least tell the audience what Bangbangbing was...That\'s the entire story.



The whole affair is now out in the open: Kevin and David, you see you are not at all the persons concerned in this trifle on which no one would waste his or her precious time. Moreover, if the person concerned REALLY does not mean to be rude to me, he is still our genuine friend.



By the way, Kevin, thanks for recommending the famous song \" Shake your Bon-Bon\" to us. But I forgot to say that it really does not apply to this case, as \"Bon-Bon\" and \"Bong-Bong\" are not articulated in the same manner, i.e. the latter has an additional velar \"[g]\".



Well, let\'s say \"cheese!\" and be good friends ------ good ProZ .com friends.





Kind regards,





Betty









[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-09-25 01:02 ]

Direct link Reply with quote
 
Yongmei Liu  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:26
English to Chinese
+ ...
In defense of Betty Sep 27, 2002

The gentleman said some unkind words; the lady returned the favor. No need for others to take sides.



And David, if you can\'t stand the heat, well, don\'t start the fire. (I\'m not arguing that you shouldn\'t criticize people - even in a crude manner - but do expect people to react. To suggest that 这些洋人 has a significant racist undertone is wimpy and PC-y.)



Yongmei Liu

http://www.itranzlate.com

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-09-27 03:41 ]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:26
English to Chinese
+ ...
Thanks to Yongmei: 朋友,感谢你! Sep 29, 2002

刚叹完夏季草木繁茂、苍翠欲滴,又醉于秋日霜叶似火,枫林迤逦 ---- 绚丽霞红、醉人酡红;耀眼嫣红、夺目桃红;瑰丽紫红、璀璨枫红...... 真乃万紫千红。不知哪位诗人这样说过:没有观赏过加国秋天的枫叶,不会懂得何为层林尽染、姹紫嫣红......



今晨,我又立於窗前---- 但见缕缕明媚的阳光扑打在窗外随风摇曳的枫树林上:千丝万缕、缤纷十色;远处的白云也沐浴在霞光里,与枫林相映成趣。在晨光的烘托下,枫云万里,浑然一体;秋云秋枫,纯然天工:绝色奇景,美奂无比。不禁又想起了泰戈尔的诗句:



\" The cloud stood humbly in a corner of the sky.

The morning crowned it with splendor*.\"



诗情画意,映照我此刻的心迹:秋晨之枫景-----美不胜举;秋日之心境-----纯净如洗:朋友感谢你,美好心情属於我和你!







Betty 写于9月29日清晨











(* “白云谦逊地站在天之一隅,晨光给它戴上霞彩”:原译者为已故著名作家郑振铎)





[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-09-29 15:32 ]


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Zhoudan  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:26
Member (2007)
English to Chinese
+ ...
This is what I was thinking: Sep 30, 2002

Quote:

The poor asker Zhoudan failed to do that and took your suggestion. I wonder what she was thinking!



Hi, Kevin,

今天偶尔上论坛看看,这里居然硝烟四起,甚感吃惊,更让我感到吃惊的是,这硝烟完全因我的“棒棒冰”问题而起,因此深感不安。一直以来,我很依赖Kudoz,因为我现在是full-time freelancer,每当翻译中碰到问题,我都会想到向Kudoz求救,而且我从其他译者的帮助中也学到了解决问题的方法。我感谢所有帮助我的人,特别要感谢Betty,也许是因为她在大陆住过,她了解我问的是什么。至于她言语上有不妥之处,我想那是因为她是一个性情中人,尽管说话粗鲁是不应该的,不过,我因此觉得她非常可爱,而且我也不认为她这样说是为了得Kudos的分数,我感觉那位外国朋友确实有点rude!

至于我为什么选了她的答案,而没有选别人的,我有很多考虑。第一,Betty知道我问的是什么;第二,我看了Betty的reference,那是台湾人做的网站。棒棒冰似乎也是前几年从台湾等地传入大陆的,所以,我想,既然台湾人已经在用Bong Bong Ice,不妨采纳。第三,在做出选择之前,我给一位住在纽约的美国朋友(是洋人)发了邮件,描述了棒棒冰的样子和吃法,他第二天就到商店里逛了一圈,说,有类似的产品,厂家不同,叫法也不同。但是,从他的描述来看,也并非完全是我所说的“棒棒冰”。所以,现成的答案似乎没有。第四,坦率地说,我不认为bong bong ice是最好的选择,我也考虑到bong bong 可能会有不好的联想,比如水烟筒之类的东西。选择bong bong ice 其实是不得已之举。因为有这么多热心人给我提供答案,不从中选择一个似乎说不过去。

我非常喜欢proz,不用说,Kudoz给我的帮助最大,此外,论坛也是我非常喜欢的,记得刚学习使用TRADOS的时候,碰到了一个技术问题,就是通过论坛解决的。尽管我很少参加论坛的讨论,但我一直都在关注着她。在我的心目中,PROZ不仅是一个讨论问题的地方,也是一个温暖的家庭。



Zhoudan



Quote

Certainly, I would not arbitrarily assume \"Bong Bong Ice\" to be the best English equivalent of \"Bangbangbing\", there might be better versions... but before the question was coming to a close, Ms. Zhou did add some notes there asking for any better suggestions. Every reader could clearly see that she was calling up the native English speakers to give out something which could be at least more idiomatic than mine. But what she had been long awaiting was silence. Then, what could she do? Her only choice was to choose among all the answers the most helpful one which could at least tell the audience what Bangbangbing was...That\'s the entire story.



Exactly! Thank you for understanding me, Betty!



Zhoudan


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Kevin Yang  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:26
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
+ ...
It’s not over till the fat lady sings. Sep 30, 2002

Betty,



Thank you for writing


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Kevin Yang  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:26
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Is this what you can come up with? Sep 30, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-09-27 03:39, itranzlate wrote:

The gentleman said some unkind words; the lady returned the favor. No need for others to take sides.



And David, if you can\'t stand the heat, well, don\'t start the fire. (I\'m not arguing that you shouldn\'t criticize people - even in a crude manner - but do expect people to react. To suggest that 这些洋人 has a significant racist undertone is wimpy and PC-y.)



Yongmei Liu





Wow, very feisty, Lady!



It is certainly refreshing to see that you can take this matter so lightly. If you really meant what you said in your message that \"No need for others to take side,\" then why are you here and use a title like that for your message?



Fortunately, it is not up to you to shut up someone like that. Just let you know that both David Rockwell and I have been actively contributing our time and efforts to the Kudoz and Chinese Forum at ProZ.com. We are not just any \"others\". Like everyone else, we are entitled to express our opinions here when we see something that does not sit well with us. If you are such a concerned member, where have you been in the past year? Have you ever helped with any Kudoz questions or any discussion in the Chinese Forum? A new kid in the block?



You said in your message that \"And David, if you can\'t stand the heat, well, don\'t start the fire.\" What kind of rotten advice is that? As an ATA accredited translator, is that the best advice that you can come up with? I cannot help but raise my eyebrows. I wonder where you got such set of street-smart attitude. I have to tell you that this is a WRONG place to use it. I suggest you could tuck it somewhere and keep on walking, two blocks later turn right, you will see a flea market. You might need to use it when you make your first bargain there.



Let\'s get the record straight here. David did not \"start the fire\" as you called it. He is a good Chinese translator and simply expressed his concern in the Chinese Forum. I am very proud that some people like him is decent enough to stand up to address this issue and have the courage to talk about it.



Have a good day!



Kevin



[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-09-30 09:06 ]

Direct link Reply with quote
 
Pages in topic:   [1 2 3 4] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

和为贵

Advanced search






Déjà Vu X3
Try it, Love it

Find out why Déjà Vu is today the most flexible, customizable and user-friendly tool on the market. See the brand new features in action: *Completely redesigned user interface *Live Preview *Inline spell checking *Inline

More info »
WordFinder
The words you want Anywhere, Anytime

WordFinder is the market's fastest and easiest way of finding the right word, term, translation or synonym in one or more dictionaries. In our assortment you can choose among more than 120 dictionaries in 15 languages from leading publishers.

More info »



All of ProZ.com
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs