Off topic: 关于 Orhan Pamuk
Thread poster: liberation
liberation  Identity Verified
Chinese to English
Oct 13, 2006

土尔其的 Orhan Pamuk 刚得了今年的 Nobel Prize for Literature。

我买了上海人民出版社的 《我的名字叫红》。中文版的译者为沈志兴,但书上没说清楚原文的语言。

我很想知道:到底,《我的名字叫红》是从土尔其文直接翻译过来的吗?还是从英文的译文翻译过来的?

有没有人知道?如何去了解?

谢谢。

Bruce


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Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:53
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布鲁斯: Oct 14, 2006

根据以下两个相关链接, 我认为《我的名字叫红》是从土耳其语直接译入中文的。

向译者致敬!

book.sohu.com/20061012/n245764667.shtml

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orhan_Pamuk


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Denyce Seow  Identity Verified
Singapore
Local time: 18:53
Member (2004)
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An expert in Turkish literature Oct 14, 2006

Bruce Humes wrote:

我很想知道:到底,《我的名字叫红》是从土尔其文直接翻译过来的吗?还是从英文的译文翻译过来的?

Bruce



I guess it was translated directly from Turkish. The Chinese translator is an expert in Turkish literature (www.bjtimes.cn/news/20061013/n78453.shtml).

Here is another article:
幸运的是,出版社找到的从未翻译过小说的土耳其语学者沈志兴的文笔很不错。 在《我的名字叫红》中,有个小孩就叫奥尔汗,作者说那个角色就是他自己,他把自己小时候和 ...
www.mindmeters.com/arshow.asp?id=2400

Denyce


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liberation  Identity Verified
Chinese to English
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Many thanks to both of you Oct 14, 2006

As the articles make clear, China has precious few Turkish-to-Chinese translators on which to call!

In the past, the relative lack of fluent speakers of foreign languages has led Chinese literary translators to deal with the English versions of a book, regardless of the original language.

For instance, the well-known author Han Shao-Gong translated Kundera's "The Incredible Lightness of Being" from the English...which had been translated from the French...and was originally written in Czech.


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Zhoudan  Identity Verified
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这本书好看吗? Oct 15, 2006

如果好看,我去买本看看。

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Chinoise  Identity Verified
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That sounds really funny... Oct 15, 2006

Bruce Humes wrote:

For instance, the well-known author Han Shao-Gong translated Kundera's "The Incredible Lightness of Being" from the English...which had been translated from the French...and was originally written in Czech.




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liberation  Identity Verified
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Do you mean "My Name is Red" by Pamuk? Oct 15, 2006

Zhoudan wrote:

如果好看,我去买本看看。



I read 2/3 of the English version and loved it. Bought the Chinese version and was just starting it...but moved to Sapporo to study Japanese last week and didn't bring it. So I have no opinion about the Chinese version.

I do recommend "Red" because:

*** Neat plot

*** Turkey occupies an interesting place mid-way between the Muslim/Arab world and historically Christian Europe. Pamuk's world view and his writing is shaped by this unique background. In a world where few in the West, and even fewer in China can "understand" a traditional Muslim society through its literature -- because so little has been translated from the Arabic -- this book offers a neat "window" into one such society.

*** Much of the book touches on various schools of traditional miniaturist painting about 500 years, and the Chinese and Persian "schools" are very much a part of that debate.


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 18:53
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Not too funny at all. Oct 15, 2006

Chinoise wrote:
That sounds really funny...


中國漢唐宋盛世,外國使節「九轉來朝」,那也是從一個語言翻譯成另一個語言,再翻譯成另一個語言,一共翻譯了九次才變成中國語文,照樣建立了良好的邦交往來關係。

如果要說文學的翻譯有所不同,我倒覺得人同此心、心同此理,只要是人類的思想和感情,無論轉了幾次都還是可以表達的。比較麻煩的是語文形式特性的東西,無法按照原來形式翻譯,那是所謂的 intranslatability,但文學翻譯,即使直接從某個語文翻譯過來,原本就無法保持原文的形式的。不過,內涵卻絕對 translatable,轉上九次也還是同樣的內涵。

昆德拉那本書甚至拍成電影,內涵還是沒有變,或者說改變很少,頂多是電影必須有主題強調的東西,書則比較全面,讀的人可以見仁見智,各取所需地解讀。另外一個例子是 Umberto Eco 的 Il nome della rosa,由於電影必須側重的戲劇效果,因此看起來和原著的內涵好像有很大的差異,但那其實應該叫做改編。

我們在翻譯的時候,不常常也改編了別人的著作嗎?不管翻譯得多麼生動流暢,中文版的《我的名字叫红》絕對不會是 Orhan Pamuk 的著作,但也是他的著作,因為攸關緊要的內涵應該不變。而且,雖然我還未讀那本書,也不懂土耳其文,卻非常相信翻譯者會是忠實的譯者;畢竟土耳其文和中國境內的維吾爾語言相近,中國與突厥的交往早有長久的歷史,所以不至於太離譜。

P.S. 我讀到的資料顯示,Kundera (非本名) 本身的法文程度,若非更好的話,和捷克文一樣好,所以法文版是他和法文翻譯者商議出來的翻譯版本,從法文翻譯成英文不太可能走味,中文譯者程度夠的話,中文版應該也不會太差。


[Edited at 2006-10-15 10:42]


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Zhoudan  Identity Verified
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Yes Oct 16, 2006

Thank you for the information.

Bruce Humes wrote:

Zhoudan wrote:

如果好看,我去买本看看。



I read 2/3 of the English version and loved it. Bought the Chinese version and was just starting it...but moved to Sapporo to study Japanese last week and didn't bring it. So I have no opinion about the Chinese version.

I do recommend "Red" because:

*** Neat plot

*** Turkey occupies an interesting place mid-way between the Muslim/Arab world and historically Christian Europe. Pamuk's world view and his writing is shaped by this unique background. In a world where few in the West, and even fewer in China can "understand" a traditional Muslim society through its literature -- because so little has been translated from the Arabic -- this book offers a neat "window" into one such society.

*** Much of the book touches on various schools of traditional miniaturist painting about 500 years, and the Chinese and Persian "schools" are very much a part of that debate.


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wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 05:53
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Some reviews from Amazon.com Oct 16, 2006

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0375706852/ref=cm_cr_dp_pt/102-7611537-0493720?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

Zhoudan,

Here are some readers' reviews from Amazon.com... predominantly favorable.

It must be pretty good if he won a Nobel Prize for Literature.



[Edited at 2006-10-16 01:43]


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Zhoudan  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:53
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Thank you Oct 16, 2006

wherestip for the info. Will take a closer look.


wherestip wrote:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0375706852/ref=cm_cr_dp_pt/102-7611537-0493720?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

Zhoudan,

Here are some readers' reviews from Amazon.com... predominantly favorable.

It must be pretty good if he won a Nobel Prize for Literature.



[Edited at 2006-10-16 01:43]


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liberation  Identity Verified
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER
《间接》翻译得不到 Orhan Pamuk 的青睐 Oct 16, 2006

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

Chinoise wrote:
That sounds really funny...


中國漢唐宋盛世,外國使節「九轉來朝」,那也是從一個語言翻譯成另一個語言,再翻譯成另一個語言,一共翻譯了九次才變成中國語文,照樣建立了良好的邦交往來關係。

如果要說文學的翻譯有所不同,我倒覺得人同此心、心同此理,只要是人類的思想和感情,無論轉了幾次都還是可以表達的。比較麻煩的是語文形式特性的東西,無法按照原來形式翻譯,那是所謂的 intranslatability,但文學翻譯,即使直接從某個語文翻譯過來,原本就無法保持原文的形式的。不過,內涵卻絕對 translatable,轉上九次也還是同樣的內涵。

昆德拉那本書甚至拍成電影,內涵還是沒有變,或者說改變很少,頂多是電影必須有主題強調的東西,書則比較全面,讀的人可以見仁見智,各取所需地解讀。另外一個例子是 Umberto Eco 的 Il nome della rosa,由於電影必須側重的戲劇效果,因此看起來和原著的內涵好像有很大的差異,但那其實應該叫做改編。

我們在翻譯的時候,不常常也改編了別人的著作嗎?不管翻譯得多麼生動流暢,中文版的《我的名字叫红》絕對不會是 Orhan Pamuk 的著作,但也是他的著作,因為攸關緊要的內涵應該不變。而且,雖然我還未讀那本書,也不懂土耳其文,卻非常相信翻譯者會是忠實的譯者;畢竟土耳其文和中國境內的維吾爾語言相近,中國與突厥的交往早有長久的歷史,所以不至於太離譜。

P.S. 我讀到的資料顯示,Kundera (非本名) 本身的法文程度,若非更好的話,和捷克文一樣好,所以法文版是他和法文翻譯者商議出來的翻譯版本,從法文翻譯成英文不太可能走味,中文譯者程度夠的話,中文版應該也不會太差。


[Edited at 2006-10-15 10:42]




关于《间接》翻译的问题,本人来说,不如作家本身来说吧。

这一段来自中华读书网的文章:


  帕慕克全部小说都是用土耳其语写的,对于作品被翻译成中文,他十分开心,但是给世纪文景提出了一个要求。帕慕克表示,自己的作品已经被翻译成很多文字,但其中一些从英文版间接翻译过去的译本质量非常不好,所以中文版必须直接从土耳其语版翻译过去,而不能从英文版间接翻译。这个要求增加了出版社翻译上的困难,但是世纪文景十分理解帕慕克对自己作品的爱惜之情,答应了这个要求。但原计划2005年推出的作品一直拖到今年8月上海书展才正式与读者见面,翻译成本也是原来的2倍。


全文:

http://www.booktide.com/news/20061016/200610160004.html


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Zhoudan  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:53
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翻译成本也不贵 Oct 17, 2006

考虑到国内出版社的英译中翻译费实在低得不像话,翻译成本是原来的两倍也仍然很低。

Bruce Humes wrote:

但原计划2005年推出的作品一直拖到今年8月上海书展才正式与读者见面,翻译成本也是原来的2倍。




[Edited at 2006-10-17 11:18]


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