重要!给 KudoZ 回答者的提示 (A notice for Chinese KudoZ Users)
Thread poster: Jianjun Zhang

Jianjun Zhang  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:59
English to Chinese
+ ...
Jun 23, 2007

我们经常会在中文 KudoZ 中看到回答者以 FYI 或 Try 作为答案标题,为大家提供帮助的情况。这个现象已有历史,我想似乎与中国人一贯的礼节性自谦有关,且无碍一般的 KudoZ 运作,因此从未加以干涉。然而,最近发现,这一现象有所增加,倒不是一个好现象。提示大家,KudoZ 其实已经为我们提供了另一种方式表达自信程度,即英文之 Confidence Level。

更重要的是,KudoZ 规则 (http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_general/1.4#1.4) 规定:

Draft glossaries are generated automatically from KudoZ questions and answers. For this reason, expressions such as 'see below' must not be entered in the boxes provided for terms, either when posting source terms or proposing translations. Question marks, quote marks, unnecessary capitalization and anything else that would not be found in a dictionary, should not be entered.

为方便理解,附中文版如下:

词汇草稿自动从 KudoZ 问题和解答中生成。 因此,诸如“参见下文”等措辞不应输入到词条方框中,无论是张贴的源词条,还是建议的译文。 词典中不该出现的问号、引号、不必要的大写及其它任何符号,也都不应输入。

从这里可以看出,FYI 或 Try 等表达方式应属被禁之列。尤其是原文措辞中使用的 must not be entered (不应输入,或更明确些,不得输入) 更说明我们应该恰当使用每个方框提供的功能,不要把无关的/不适当的内容输入进去。这也反映了一种条理和规则,让网站运作井然有序。

除此之外,偶尔还发现用户使用 Ask the Asker(问题问者)方框回答问题、互相聊天、拌嘴、警示/提示题问者的情况。这也是不许可的。警示题问者应该是管理者的事,请使用相应链接报告给管理人,但毋须自行警示对方。

网站的良性运作需要大家共同维护,请各位同仁从今天开始按照规则,停止使用 FYI 等回答问题。当然习惯成自然,我想可以给一个月的缓冲期逐渐转变,发现这种情况时,请大家积极“举报”,我也会随时单独提醒违规者,直至现象消除。

在经过一段时间后,对反复提示无效的用户,则不得不采取警告、临时禁用、禁用等强制措施。

祝大家工作愉快,周末快乐!
Jianjun
Moderator, KudoZ

[Edited at 2007-08-02 00:47]


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 14:59
English to Chinese
+ ...
Nice to know... Jun 23, 2007

Jianjun Zhang wrote:

在经过一段时间后,对反复提示无效的用户,则不得不采取警告、临时禁用、禁用等强制措施。


who has the pants on here.


Jianjun Zhang wrote:

... 聊天请到论坛来,拌嘴就免了吧,除非有人首先用穿过的短裤羞辱你(开个玩笑,据理力争可以,吵架拌嘴不可以!:P)警示题问者应该是管理者的事,请使用相应链接报告给管理人,但毋须自行警示对方。


老实说,我从来只据理力争,不与人拌嘴。

你说我价钱那么高,可以找到许多低价帮我做翻译的人,所以我的月收入一万美元可以达到。但其实不是那回事,我需要时间回答那些合作者的种种问题,解决终端客户和翻译者之间的沟通问题,那全都是需要功夫的。

当我说“出个好价钱,我连穿过的内裤都可以卖给你。”,其实我应该说“出个好价钱,我连身上穿的内裤都可以脱下来卖给你。”我的意思是:既然下了译海,那就别期望别人给我们立牌坊!Nobody would believe that you don't make money when you outsource, anyway. (Note: The "you" in this sentence is not a specific YOU!)

权威的建立绝非凭空而来的。越权、弄权的人总会被看穿的。你开此栏说的言语别人都看在眼里,ProZ.com 的管理当局也必定会得到信息。因此之故,你还是平心静气想一想,我与你到底有怎样的冤仇,该化解的拿出来说说;如是我的错,诚心诚意向你道歉,但若是你的错,我同样要求你诚心诚意的道歉。


[Edited at 2007-06-23 07:18]


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 14:59
English to Chinese
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About the pants Jun 23, 2007

http://www.proz.com/topic/47099?start=48

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
给个好价钱 May 18

Jianjun Zhang wrote:

老兄的价格已涨到 0.25 欧元/每字了吗?乖乖!那可是 0.33 美元/字呦!照这样,每天干 1000 词真的可以到 1 万美元的月收入!有人还啃几分钱的骨头肉,难怪不累得吐血,。


连我穿过的内裤都可以卖给你!


It is known that there are people in Japan (or somewhere else, too) who seek to buy used pants that school girls wear under their skirts.

Most school girls wouldn't sell their underwear, but some of them would consider seriously to sell, especially when the price for pants taken off from under their skirts goes up to a certain amount, say $200 a piece, just to name a figure. Isn't it kind of easy money?

In my above posting, I was expressing that if the person in question would like to have my underwear, no problem, just name an attractive price and I might take off my pants on the spot and sell them to him.

Apparently, the person in question didn't understand what I was saying at all.


[Edited at 2007-06-23 11:44]


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Doroto
Local time: 14:59
English to Chinese
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I hardly understand Jun 23, 2007

That is interesting story about pants. : )

At first read, I hardly understand what it really means.

You two heavyweights in eng-cn pairs language workers should cooperate rather than quarrel.


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 14:59
English to Chinese
+ ...
No quarrel at all Jun 23, 2007

Doroto wrote:

That is interesting story about pants. : )

At first read, I hardly understand what it really means.

You two heavyweights in eng-cn pairs language workers should cooperate rather than quarrel.



No quarrel at all. I am just making my stand clear with the points that have to be said.

A cooperation is not just a matter of wish. It depends on a lot of factors. For one thing, I cannot afford paying someone who expects too much and who bothers me for any slightest uncertainty. For another thing, each and every one of us has his/her own market niche and there is no necessity that people shall come to terms in any costs. That is simply not my style.

As to the matter of the pants, it is clear that everyone has the right to choose whether you buy or sell anything to the conditions offered. None of us is entitled to impose a girdle of chasity on anyone else. Isn't it clear?


[Edited at 2007-06-23 11:41]


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David Shen  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:59
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Chill Out ProZians! Jun 23, 2007

又到周末好时光
张家短来李家长
卖字卖话卖短裤
你方唱罢我登场


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Red & Black  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:59
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文哲名言錄 Jun 23, 2007

穿過的褲子
價錢若高亦可賣
結婚的日子
共襄盛舉要不得



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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 14:59
English to Chinese
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Nice poem Jun 23, 2007

David Shen wrote:

又到周末好时光
张家短来李家长
卖字卖话卖短裤
你方唱罢我登场


David,

Thanks for the cheer up or cheer out.

However, I am wondering if you ever read the novel "The Taste of Power," written by the Slovakian writer Ladislav Mnacko and published in 1967?

You see, I am not talking of "Zhang's shortness" or "Lee's length" I am talking clearly of an improper "power demonstration." This is to be cut off in a civilized community.

If I had ever done someone something wrong, I would see it without being reminded and I would consequently apologize for my wrong-doing. But I don't seen anything wrong on my part when I tell a colleague/peer my honest opinions. I sincerely ask the starter of this thread to clarify what he means by what he posted. If there is anything wrong on my part, I will apologize openly and frankly. But if he put me wrong, I am asking him to apologize as well. This is all I want to make peace in our community.

Some people put me wrong not because of my different political viewpoints, but for their own unfounded ressentiment. This is to be cut off in a civilized community like ours at ProZ.com.

Just don't try to excercise undue power on me! I am no Alice in Wonderland and there shouldn't be any Humpty Dumpty or the Queen around here!


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 14:59
English to Chinese
+ ...
認識你夠久了 Jun 23, 2007

Red & Black wrote:

穿過的褲子
價錢若高亦可賣
結婚的日子
共襄盛舉要不得



所以白著說:德語裡說 Wenn der Preis korrekt ist, kann man die Großmutter auch verkaufen.

翻譯成中文就是:價錢對的話,祖母也可賣。

這裡有什麼人有憑據批判別人的道德?行為的是非總有個理字可循曲直!既然有人敢擺出權威,我倒要看看是否真的是有充分基礎的權威,或者只是拿著雞毛當令箭。我一向不耍嘴皮子,但絕對據理力爭。


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Red & Black  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:59
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歸去來兮 Jun 23, 2007

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

Red & Black wrote:

穿過的褲子
價錢若高亦可賣
結婚的日子
共襄盛舉要不得



所以白著說:德語裡說 Wenn der Preis korrekt ist, kann man die Großmutter auch verkaufen.

翻譯成中文就是:價錢對的話,祖母也可賣。

這裡有什麼人有憑據批判別人的道德?行為的是非總有個理字可循曲直!既然有人敢擺出權威,我倒要看看是否真的是有充分基礎的權威,或者只是拿著雞毛當令箭。我一向不耍嘴皮子,但絕對據理力爭。




看來是貼錯地方
也許該放在笑話欄才對
罷了 罷了
你說你理 爭一口氣
我唱我調 歸去來兮


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Jianjun Zhang  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:59
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER
接一首 Jun 23, 2007

David Shen wrote:
又到周末好时光
张家短来李家长
卖字卖话卖短裤
你方唱罢我登场


好了,笑话归笑话,文哲兄的解释不是口角,请大家放心,我绝对可以用宽容心对待这位兄台。他解释清了,矛盾也许就没有了。唯独解释得太晚了一点,而且大大的牵强耶。

我不是日本人,也没受过日本人的教育,家中也没有日本亲友,因此无法理解内裤的奥妙,更要命的是,这样的玩笑一般人(别管是哪国人)恐怕都消受不起。如果谁有反对意见,证明可以舒服地接受,请说明,下次大家都知道可以用内裤(不是短裤或裤子哦!)开玩笑了。

严肃地说,我不相信本论坛有这样的人。

文化有差异,但华人间一般不会因文化问题产生矛盾。因为大的文化圈在这里摆着。对于子文化圈,一般人了解到穆斯林的宗教习惯后,自然会避免使用某些词汇来伤害对方。

但在不了解对方文化的情况下,比如有的同仁曾经祝我猪年快乐,我决不会因此生气。但对于才高八斗,学富五车的大使级人物而言(BTW,有兴趣可以看看这个链接:http://gb.cri.cn/3601/2005/10/12/1266@735307.htm,了解一下谁是第一个“才高八斗”的人),犯这种低级错误只有一种可能 - 哈哈,我不说大家也知道嘞!

祝大家周末开心!
我这些日子真是快乐得很哦!:D

[Edited at 2007-09-01 00:26]


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 14:59
English to Chinese
+ ...
这透露出怎样的人格? Jun 23, 2007

Jianjun Zhang wrote:
David Shen wrote:
又到周末好时光
张家短来李家长
卖字卖话卖短裤
你方唱罢我登场


内裤辱人成典故,
闲来晒晒亦无妨。
何必心急又上火,
日本文化台人讲?
讨得大家开口笑,
生旦净末丑可当。

好了,笑话归笑话,文哲兄的解释不是口角,请大家放心,我绝对可以用宽容心对待这位兄台。他解释清了,矛盾也许就没有了。唯独解释得太晚了一点,而且大大的牵强耶。

我不是日本人,也没受过日本人的教育,家中也没有日本亲友,因此无法理解内裤的奥妙,更要命的是,这样的玩笑一般人(别管是哪国人)恐怕都消受不起。如果谁有反对意见,证明可以舒服地接受,请说明,下次大家都知道可以用内裤(不是短裤或裤子哦!)开玩笑了。

严肃地说,我不相信本论坛有这样的人。

文化有差异,但华人间一般不会因文化问题产生矛盾。因为大的文化圈在这里摆着。对于子文化圈,一般人了解到穆斯林的宗教习惯后,自然会避免使用某些词汇来伤害对方。

但在不了解对方文化的情况下,比如有的同仁曾经祝我猪年快乐,我决不会因此生气。但对于才高八斗,学富五车的大使级人物而言(BTW,有兴趣可以看看这个链接:http://gb.cri.cn/3601/2005/10/12/1266@735307.htm,了解一下谁是第一个“才高八斗”的人),犯这种低级错误只有一种可能 - 哈哈,我不说大家也知道嘞!

祝大家周末开心!
我这些日子真是快乐得很哦!:D


再仔细看一次所谓的内裤事件是怎么回事:

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
给个好价钱 May 18

Jianjun Zhang wrote:

老兄的价格已涨到 0.25 欧元/每字了吗?乖乖!那可是 0.33 美元/字呦!照这样,每天干 1000 词真的可以到 1 万美元的月收入!有人还啃几分钱的骨头肉,难怪不累得吐血,。


连我穿过的内裤都可以卖给你!


哪来的内裤辱人?我不过是自我调侃一下。我说得明白:No money, no honey! 要做婊子,就别寄望别人给你立牌坊。(这里的“你”不是特定的你。) 反正你派稿给别人做,也别想人家相信你什么都不赚。我可摆得清楚:不想让我也赚一点养家活口的钱,那就别想我派稿。

你不是不相信我贴出那样的价码是要挡掉不诚意的电子邮件的吗?既然如此,你还在乎我贴出怎样的价码?有必要如此酸溜溜的吗?你自己不觉得酸吗?你的呼吸道不会受到损伤吗?

有一位同仁与我私下的信函片段如下,我虽未征求他的同意公布,但忖度应该无妨,所以公布这一部分。

I'm sorry to see you guys publicly falling out like this. There must have been some misunderstanding along the way for Jianjun not to attend your last Beijing business meeting using such an excuse. I also agree with you that he doesn't seem to be the kind of person who could easily be persuaded to change his mind once he's convinced of something. So I think the best thing for you to do is just try to get along and not to engage in any debates, whether philosophically or regarding matters related to real life business.

Not too many people in the forum are as outspoken as you are. I find I can identify with the many things you say there, or at least understand where you are coming from. I think it's mostly due to our similar years of experience. Very early on in life, I figured out that there is not always a clear-cut right or wrong on many issues. Therefore I always try to maintain a balanced view, and try to give others who disagree with me the benefit of the doubt. I think I mentioned this in the past.

Anyway, ... I'm not so sure I can help in anyway to patch things up between the two of you. My advice to you is don't think of it as anything personal. For all we know, Jianjun might really believe in maintaining a principle of not charging fellow translators for overhead expenses. He probably has to find out for himself whether it is really feasible in practice. That's another thing I believe in -- a lot of things you have to find out by yourself, especially when it comes to life experiences.

才高几斗都一样,我的哲学很简单,如同我的墓志铭所说的一般:我翻译过,什么笑话都闹。

翻译者是一种可怜的族群,不管做过多少好的翻译,只要犯一个稍微低级的错误,同行就可以挂念、提醒你一辈子。这种族群不够可怜吗?

台湾人接触的文化非常多,不只日本文化,早在 1908 年台湾就有了东亚的第一条铁道,在 1926 年就举行了世界博览会。台湾人采取开放的态度面对这个世界,当然什么都可谈论。

自己好好想一想,想清楚了,想道歉了,不好公开道歉,即使私下来信道歉也可以。


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Jianjun Zhang  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:59
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Back to the topic Jun 23, 2007

正式信息,请参照第一帖仔细阅读:

The problem discussed in the original post under this thread was raised by a peer. She brought me to the fact that there were increasing incidences of using "FYI", etc. as term entries when suggesting answers.

As I stated clearly by quoting a KudoZ rule that it is more appropriate that we use Confidence Level to indicate our confidence than use "FYI".

We know this is a problem coming from many years ago and I believe it should be changed gradually starting from now. And I think one month is enough for the whole process.

Furthermore, since some peers may not come to the forum I think it's also necessary for me to remind any peers of this practice on a case by case basis.

However, if after many reminders, a peer still refuses to follow the quoted rule, I have to add warning record(s) on his/her profile, suspend temporarily his/her access to certain functions of KudoZ and even block his/her access to certain functions of KudoZ.

It is not my intention to emphasize that peers will be punished and the last point should not be regarded as an intimidation. I trust nobody will really challenge the rule time and time again because:

1. The rule is logical;
2. The rule is easy to follow;
3. The rule helps users get richer KudoZ experience.

I apologize for the many irrelevant posts under the thread that are evoked by my joke in the first post.

Thanks all for your input. To prevent further interruptions, I have to lock this thread as it is simply a notice and not for discussion.

Jianjun
Moderator, KudoZ


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重要!给 KudoZ 回答者的提示 (A notice for Chinese KudoZ Users)

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