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Off topic: "样板戏”入教材,是谁之忧?
Thread poster: Ming Fu, Qi
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Wenjer Leuschel (X)  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 17:56
English to Chinese
+ ...
是该打住了 Mar 24, 2008

Libin PhD wrote:

大家都打住吧,说事情就说事情,谈自己的观点,这样下去是没有任何出路的。


李兄说得对,天地这么大,市场到处有,我该说的话也说了,并不想把这里弄成中国国内的论坛。任别人自己痛快去吧,我有我的自由天地,到克里姆林宫前也可以痛骂美国总统。


 
Renquan Yang
Renquan Yang  Identity Verified
China
Member (2007)
English to Chinese
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这世界终于安静了,很好,很好 Mar 24, 2008

这世界终于安静了,很好,很好。柴门闻犬吠,风雪夜归人。

 
traiston
traiston  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 19:56
Member (2008)
English to Chinese
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宽容与尊重 Mar 24, 2008

论坛不应该成为搞个人攻击的地方。个人观点应依靠事实与证据并通过逻辑归纳得以支持,从中体现出自身的智慧与水平。翻译是做文字工作的,如何在充分表达个人观点而又以理性的态度反驳对方观点(而不是搞人身攻击)也是我们的技能之一。

大陆的新闻管制是不争的事实,但是管制并不等于100%的不能获得真实的消息。


 
chica nueva
chica nueva
Local time: 21:56
Chinese to English
1 Yugur nationality (Gansu); Xianbei; Tanguts; Xiongnu 2 Xinjiang Mar 24, 2008

lai an wrote:

http://www.chinage.net/Art/2006/11/20/Article_200611207042_1.htm
http://www.360doc.com/showWeb/0/0/125005.aspx

'5.甘肃:多为汉人与匈奴、突厥混血后裔,甘肃境内的裕固族来自于回纥。'

'回纥汗国后期,内乱不断,汗庭於西元840年为黠戛斯攻破,族众主要部分南迁至山西北部,融入汉族之中。其他一部分在草原中,融入室韦部落中,后来成为蒙古族的一部分,另一部分则西迁入今新疆与甘肃河西。在河西的回纥为西夏所败,但余众仍留居河西,明代称为撒里畏吾尔,今日称为裕固族;留在新疆的回纥在五代之际建立喀喇汗王朝,势力及於准噶尔盆地以西,伊犁河流域及南疆,其族众后技成为今日维吾儿族的主要成员。 '

Thanks for the links Steve. I find it complicated.

I did a translation on the Yugurs of Gansu which told the story of their migration. This now tells me more about their links to the Uygurs and why 'part of their language is close to the Uygur language'.

代匈奴而起的漠北民族是鲜卑,鲜卑族兴起於今大兴安岭的鲜卑山区,后来南迁至呼伦贝尔草原。他们接受汉帝国的招抚,合力攻击北匈奴;北匈奴瓦解西迁,鲜卑代之而起,吸纳匈奴余众,主宰北方大草原,进而入居辽西,并进入关中,於淝水之战后,建立政权,成为五胡十六国的主要成员。进而以今山西大同一带为基地,统一华北,建立北魏王朝。在孝文帝的汉化政策下,禁胡服,断北语,在朝廷上限用汉语,改姓氏,如拓拔氏改姓元氏、独孤改姓刘、步六孤改姓陆、丘穆陵改姓穆;於是内迁中原的鲜卑族,逐渐融入汉族。隋唐以后,鲜卑族遂消失在汉族之中,不再是一个民族实体了。

I've done a translation on this period of history too: 'The great fusion of nationalities in the Yellow River Basin'


[Edited at 2008-03-23 08:47]

[Edited at 2008-03-23 09:12]

[Edited at 2008-03-23 23:43]


另外一支党项羌则受吐蕃的压迫,迁至今甘肃、宁夏与陕北一带,逐渐吸收汉族文化,而形成西夏人,建立西夏政权(1032-1227)。敦煌石窟中就有许多西夏的碑刻壁画。西元1227年,西夏亡於蒙古之后,族人大部分同化於汉族之中。

I have done a translation relating to the Tanguts (西夏) as well: 'Wuwei's Tangut Stele'.

And several relating to the Xiongnu: 'Gansu's Ancient Great Wall'; 'Zhang Qian and "The Silk Road"; Ban Chao; 'Li Guang's Tomb' at Tianshui; 'Several stories of General Li Guang'

Interesting. Thank you!

Re Xinjiang, I have been there. I have met several Uygurs in Christchurch. And I have translated the story: 'Zuo Zong Tang takes back Xinjiang'. That's about it. Gansu has been my main focus.

[Edited at 2008-03-24 09:48]


 
chance (X)
chance (X)
French to Chinese
+ ...
允许我称赞一下几位年轻人的发言 Mar 24, 2008

他们能够保持比较冷静的态度,关心自己的国家,同时客观,也知道存在的问题,尽管也各有不同观点,但是能够较为客观冷静地谈出自己的看法。我愿意向他们学习。

我佩服文哲的大胆坦率,有清醒的头脑,并不附言趋势人云亦云。他有时也会失去冷静,实在是有些人的挑衅所致。无论如何,我希望文哲能够保持风度,不必和有些人过分计较。

[Edited at 2008-03-24 11:42]


 
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Wenjer Leuschel (X)  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 17:56
English to Chinese
+ ...
幾個年輕人確實不錯 Mar 24, 2008

chance wrote:

他们能够保持比较冷静的态度,关心自己的国家,同时客观,也知道存在的问题,尽管也各有不同观点,但是能够较为客观冷静地谈出自己的看法。我愿意向他们学习。


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:56
English to Chinese
+ ...
不知这位在拉萨从3月12日待到3月19日的西方记者所说的话算不算客观 Mar 24, 2008

现摘录一部分。有兴趣者可阅读全文:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/03/20/tibet.miles.interview/

Q. There was an official response to this. In some reporting, info coming from Tibetan exiles, there was keenness to report it as Tiananmen.
A. Well the Chinese response to this was very interesting. Because you would expect at the first sings of any unrest in Lhasa, which is a city on a knife-edge at the best of times. That the response would be immediate and decisive. That they would cordon off whatever section of the city involved, that they would grab the people involved in the unrest. In fact what we saw, and I was watching it at the earliest stages, was complete inaction on the part of the authorities. It seemed as if they were paralyzed by indecision over how to handle this. The rioting rapidly spread from Beijing Road, this main central thoroughfare of Lhasa, into the narrow alleyways of the old Tibetan quarter. But I didn't see any attempt in those early hours by the authorities to intervene. And I suspect again the Olympics were a factor there. That they were very worried that if they did move in decisively at that early stage of the unrest that bloodshed would ensue in their efforts to control it. And what they did instead was let the rioting run its course and it didn't really finish as far as I saw until the middle of the day on the following day on the Saturday, March the 15th. So in effect what they did was sacrifice the livelihoods of many, many ethnic Han Chinese in the city for the sake of letting the rioters vent their anger. And then being able to move in gradually with troops with rifles that they occasionally let off with single shots, apparently warning shots, in order to scare everybody back into their homes and put an end to this.

Q. Would be false to suggest there was heavy-handed security approach?
A. Well this was covering a vast area of the city and I was the only foreign journalist, at least accredited, to ... who was there to witness this. It was impossible to get a total picture. I did hear persistent rumors while I was there during this rioting of isolated clashes between the security forces and rioters. And rumors of occasional bloodshed involved in that. But I can do no more really on the basis of what I saw then say there was a probability that some ethnic Chinese were killed in this violence, and also a probability that some Tibetans, Tibetan rioters themselves were killed by members of the security forces. But it's impossible to get the kind of numbers or real first hand evidences necessary to back that up.

Q. Did you actually see clashes between security forces and Tibetan protesters?
A. Well what I saw and at this stage, the situation around my hotel which was right in the middle of the old Tibetan quarter, was very tense indeed and quite dangerous so it was difficult for me to freely walk around the streets. But what I saw was small groups of Tibetans, and this was on the second day of the protests, throwing stones towards what I assumed to be, and they were slightly out of vision, members of the security forces. I would hear and indeed smell occasional volleys of Tear gas fired back. There clearly was a small scale clash going on between Tibetans and the security forces. But on the second day things had calmed down generally compared with the huge rioting that was going on...on the Friday. And the authorities were responding to these occasional clashes with Tibetans not by moving forward rapidly with either riot police and truncheons and shields, or indeed troops with rifles. But for a long time, just with occasional, with the very occasional round of tear gas, which would send and I could see this, people scattering back into these very, very, narrow and winding alleyways. What I did not hear was repeated bursts of machine gun fire, I didn't have that same sense of an all out onslaught of massive firepower that I sensed here in Beijing when I was covering the crushing of the XXXXX protests in June, 1989. This was a very different kind of operation, a more calculated one, and I think the effort of the authorities this time was to let people let off steam before establishing a very strong presence with troops, with guns, every few yards, all across the Tibetan quarter. It was only when they felt safe I think that there would not be massive bloodshed, that they actually moved in with that decisive force.


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:56
Chinese to English
+ ...
Madison Square Garden Mar 24, 2008

Yueyin Sun wrote:

有兴趣者可阅读全文:

Q. There was an official response to this. In some reporting, info coming from Tibetan exiles, there was keenness to report it as Tiananmen.



Yueyin,

Speaking of which, please allow me to insert something I thought pretty funny...

I was watching one of the recent Youtube clips about the Tibet incident, and glanced down to the viewer comments.

One comment read, "blah, blah, blah ... Tienanmen Square Garden"



[Edited at 2008-03-25 00:17]


 
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"样板戏”入教材,是谁之忧?






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