| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | srpsko-hrvatski Thread poster: Seadeta Osmani
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dkalinic
Local time: 01:17
Croatian to German
+ ...
In memoriam
thanks for such a very beautiful argumentative discussion. You forgot to mention the words which are the same in Croatian and Serbian but have different meaning. For example:
kola: HR horse cart, SR automobile
voz: HR horse cart as a measuring unit, SR train
put: HR unpaved road, pathway, SR paved road
naučnik: HR apprentice, SR scientist
etc.
Syntax, prosody, sentence intonation, semantics is also what makes Croatian and Serbian differen... See more thanks for such a very beautiful argumentative discussion. You forgot to mention the words which are the same in Croatian and Serbian but have different meaning. For example:
kola: HR horse cart, SR automobile
voz: HR horse cart as a measuring unit, SR train
put: HR unpaved road, pathway, SR paved road
naučnik: HR apprentice, SR scientist
etc.
Syntax, prosody, sentence intonation, semantics is also what makes Croatian and Serbian different languages.
Regards,
Davor ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/1#1 | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/1#1 | alz 
Croatia
Local time: 01:17
English to Croatian
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| off topic but for the sake of historical truth | Sep 19, 2011 |
Dragomir Kovacevic wrote:
...... because Croatian did not have them, because it did not exist as a language. ......
Text from Bašćanska ploča/Baška Table XI/XII century:
A[ZЪ VЪ IME O]TCA I S(I)NA [I S](VE)TAGO DUHA AZЪ
OPAT[Ъ] DRŽIHA PISAHЪ SE O LEDI[N]Ě JuŽE
DA ZЪVЪNIM[I]RЪ KRALЪ HRЪVATЪSKЪÏ [VЪ]
DNI SVOJĘ VЪ SVETUJu LUCIJu I S[VEDO]-
MI ŽUPANЪ DESIMRA KRЪ[BA]VĚ MRA[TIN]Ъ VЪ L(I)-
CĚ PR(I)BЪNEBŽA [S]Ъ POSL[Ъ] VIN[OD](O)LĚ [ĚK](O)VЪ V(Ъ) O-
TOCĚ DA IŽE TO POREČE KLЪNI I BO(G) I BÏ(=12) AP(OSTO)LA I G(=4) E-
VA(N)J(E)LISTI I S(VE)TAĚ LUCIĚ AM(E)NЪ DA IŽE SDĚ ŽIVE-
TЪ MOLI ZA NE BOGA AZЪ OPATЪ D(O)BROVITЪ ZЪ-
DAH CRĚKЪVЪ SIJu I SVOEJu BRATIJu SЪ DEV-
ETIJu VЪ DNI KЪNEZA KOSЪMЪTA OBLAD-
AJuĆAGO VЪSU KЪRAINU I BĚŠE VЪ TЪ DNI M-
IKULA VЪ OTOČЪCI [SЪ S]VETUJu LUCIJu VЪ EDINO
Translation:
I, in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, I, abbot Drzhiha, wrote this about the plot of land which was given by Zvonimir, the Croatian king , in his days to St.. Lucy and witnesses are: Desimir, prefect of Krbava, Mratin in Lika, Pribinezha in Vinodol, Jakov on the island. If anyone denies it, may he be cursed by 12 Apostles and 4 Evangelists and St.. Lucy. May anyone who lives here pray for them. I, abbot Dobrovit, built this church together with my nine brothers in the days of Duke Kosmat who ruled the whole Country. In those days Mikula was in Otocac with St.. Lucy.
The Baska Table is one of the oldest written monuments of the Croatian culture. It was made around 1100 in Baska on the island of Krk. It was the left pluteus of the altar partition in St. Lucy's church, and the partition separated the space for the priests from the space for congregation.
The Table was written in the Glagolitic script in the old Croatian language containing elements of the Slavic church language. A Croatian name was here for the first time written in the Croatian language; the script makes mention of the Croatian king Zvonimir donating a meadow to St. Lucy's church.
The Baska Table can be seen today in the entrance hall of the Croatian Academy of Science and Arts in Zagreb.
Sapienti sat!
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| Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/1#1 | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/1#1 | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/1#1 | Vesna Maširević
Serbia
Local time: 01:17
Member (2011)
English to Serbian
+ ...
Caring about one's heritage and embracing the richness of both languages is one thing but continuing to fight old wars (not just in this topic) and therefore entirely straying from the entire purpose of this site, as an example, and life on this planet for that matter, is something completely different I'd expect any decent, educated individual to be able to rise above!
/Edited again because it seems my first line was completely misunderstood/
[Edited at 2011-09-22 12:22 GM... See more Caring about one's heritage and embracing the richness of both languages is one thing but continuing to fight old wars (not just in this topic) and therefore entirely straying from the entire purpose of this site, as an example, and life on this planet for that matter, is something completely different I'd expect any decent, educated individual to be able to rise above!
/Edited again because it seems my first line was completely misunderstood/
[Edited at 2011-09-22 12:22 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| embracing the richness | Sep 21, 2011 |
Dragomir Kovacevic wrote:
As said in my previous message: "... did not exist as a language"
No, only Serbian existed as a language from and for evermore!
Simply not true.
Vesna Maširević wrote:
The same way the deviant creature mentioned above doesn't understand Croatian, the same is the level of my understanding of discussions such us these..
Caring about one's heritage and embracing the richness of both languages is one thing but continuing to fight old wars (not just in this topic) and therefore entirely straying from the entire purpose of this site, as an example, and life on this planet for that matter, is something completely different I'd expect any decent, educated individual to be able to rise above!
It's not my fault that Mr. Kovačević didn't meet your expectations...
Second, what do you mean - "both languages"? Croatian, Serbian, Bosnian,
Montenegrian? Both? Or you just had Cro & Serb on your mind?
As for me, myself and I...
I am embracing the richness of poet/singer/writer Balašević's language, of Bajaga's
language, language of songs by Idoli, Poslednja igra leptira, Zana etc. (Serbian), than
the language of Bosnian Indexi, Kemal Monteno, Crvena jabuka...
and Croatian: Arsen Dedić, Hladno pivo, TBF, Cinkuši etc. The language of Ivo Andrić
(born in Bosnia of Croatian parents, and has written in Croatian, Bosnian & Serbian,
got the Nobel Prize in 1961.), then of Meša Selimović & Mak Dizdar, Branko Ćopić (Bosnian),
of Serbian satirical writer Radoje Domanović (Vođa, Stradija),
play writer Branislav Nušić, born Alkibijad Nuša (Aromanian: Alchiviadi al Nuşa),
language of Croatian poets Dobriša (born: Dobroslav) Cesarić, Tin (Augustin) Ujević...
and writers such as Krleža, Ivan Slamnig (Carev urar), Joža Horvat etc.
And if Vojislav Šešelj publishes his autobiography one day - I would read that also
because of his awkward statements...
I like to watch Kursadžije (Serbian production) and I love multi-etnical
Top lista nadrealista. Just for illustration - linguistics "experts" -
Nermin Padež (Bosnian), Nenad Zamjenica (Serbian) & Stjepan Zarez (Croatian)
discovered that there is not only one language called Croato-Serbian, but six languages:
Croatian, Serbian, Bosnian, Hercegovian, Monte & Negrian:
Otovreno o jeziku (Frankly About Our Language)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Ia15riHRw
Vremenska prognoza (Weather Forecast)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z93_R_xiiXQ
It is humor, but very deep, profound, deep in meaning humor... and it tells
a lot of the truth!
Let me conclude with R. Domanović:
...in the North, there is a land of a great and fortunate nation, to whom
Dear God gave big and rare fortunate thing, that in it's language, every time and without
any exception... consonant k before vowel i always changes to consonant c. (Stradija)
And, to finish with poems & songs.
When you put the poems of Mak Dizdar into the song, sung by
Indexi, you get masterpieces like this:
Slovo o čovjeku (About A Man)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6j3tixWGcM
Modra rijeka (Blueness of the River)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2rgRe7DuPY
Valja nama prijeko rijeke...
(We ought to cross over
The River...)
And so much from me, indecent, non educated individual...
[Edited at 2011-09-21 21:06 GMT]
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