ProZ.com global directory of translation services
 The translation workplace
Ideas

 
Pages in topic:   [1 2] >
User
Thread poster: kgeaney
Is Déjà Vu compatible with anything?
kgeaney
Local time: 06:02
French to English
+ ...
Feb 26, 2013

Hi all,

One of my clients (emphasis on the "one") has recently begun insisting that all translations be processed and delivered in Déjà Vu. I've always worked with Wordfast/Trados and am finding that having to mess around with tags under the Déjà Vu system is very time-intensive and offers no noticeable benefits. In my view it's not even the best tag-based CAT tool around (that honour goes to MemoQ). In addition, paying €600 to keep one single client on board is just not going to happen.

So my question is this: is there any way of producing a deliverable bilingual .dvsat file, using a Déjà Vu TM, without Déjà Vu? The client does sometimes send me an .rtf export of the source so that I can work in Word, but I still have to copy and paste all the tags into the target so it's just as time-consuming, not to mention the fact that I can't use the TM that way.

Any handy hints would be gratefully appreciated.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 07:02
Member (2006)
English to Turkish
+ ...
EUR 250 Feb 26, 2013

See http://www.proz.com/tgb/730 A really competitive price for this leading CAT tool, only EUR 250!

Tags or codes are used by (almost) all CAT tools. Some of them, e.g. MemoQ and Studio use real formatting (WYSIWYG) but not for all file formats! Test translating an InDesign or FrameMaker file with these tools, you will see tags/codes again.

So I would ask which CAT tool is better to copy/insert, check these codes. What about TM results? Why don't you download a 30-day trial version and test?

Selcuk


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Sarah McDowell  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 23:02
Member (2012)
Russian to English
+ ...
Deja Vu Feb 26, 2013


kgeaney wrote:

In my view it's not even the best tag-based CAT tool around (that honour goes to MemoQ).


What makes you say that? Can you please explain what is better about MemoQ? I have tried them both and I saw very few differences. In fact, someone told me that the differences between these two are merely cosmetic (interface design etc.) so I am not sure what makes you say this statement.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:02
Finnish to French
memoQ & tags Feb 27, 2013


kgeaney wrote:
In my view it's not even the best tag-based CAT tool around (that honour goes to MemoQ).

Actually, memoQ isn't entirely tag-based: for the most common file formats (Office), the most common attributes (bold, italic, underline) are displayed in a WYSIWYG fashion, not with tags. It is therefore quite often the case that your standard Word document will not have a single tag in memoQ


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 06:02
English to Czech
+ ...
Free Editor Feb 27, 2013


kgeaney wrote:
In addition, paying €600 to keep one single client on board is just not going to happen.


You don't have to: you can always use the free editor for projects prepared with the Workgroup version. Check out this link.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Wolfgang Jörissen  Identity Verified
Belize
Member
Dutch to German
+ ...
With a bit of flexibility on both ends, you could keep this client Feb 27, 2013

... even without buying DVX.
To answer your question: No, it is not possible to work on or produce a dvsat file without DVX.
BUT: Bear in mind that DVX produces several bilingual outputs you could work in, which the client could later import without any further problems. The options are: a bilingual table (rtf file), oldschool Trados uncleaned and XLIFF. With a bit of goodwill from your client's side (it is not even an extra effort, since it does not make a difference whether the client imports a dvsat or another bilingual output), you should be able to work it out.

However, IMHO, DVX deserves a good second look. Personally, I still prefer it over MemoQ (I have both licences).

[Edited at 2013-02-27 09:20 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 
kgeaney
Local time: 06:02
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for all the replies so far Feb 27, 2013

To address the points made:

- I have downloaded the 30-day trial version and tested it. It works fine, but it's no better than what I've been using up to now, so I don't feel the need to "upgrade";

- none of my clients has ever asked me to translate anything in FrameMaker or InDesign (I guess I just don't have that kind of client);

- I found MemoQ easier to work with than Déjà Vu because it seemed more self-intuitive, and maybe because the keyboard shortcuts are closer to what I usually use in Wordfast. The differences are pretty subtle, I will admit;

- I installed the free editor and it told me that it was the standard Déjà Vu X2, running in 30-day trial mode;

- bilingual .rtf tables still mean having to copy and paste all the tags. Can old-school Trados unclean files really be imported into Déjà Vu so as to populate all the tags automatically? If this is possible then this would be the ideal solution. Can the XLIFF files exported by DVX be processed by other CAT tools? I thought they were in SDLXLIFF format, and thus incompatible;

- €600 for one client? No. €250 for one client? Maybe, but only 3 people out of the 15 required have signed up for an offer that was originally going to end today...


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 07:02
Member (2006)
English to Turkish
+ ...
bilingual formats Feb 27, 2013


kgeaney wrote:
- none of my clients has ever asked me to translate anything in FrameMaker or InDesign (I guess I just don't have that kind of client);


You are lucky! But there are lots of other formats, xliff, XML, TTX


- bilingual .rtf tables still mean having to copy and paste all the tags. Can old-school Trados unclean files really be imported into Déjà Vu so as to populate all the tags automatically? If this is possible then this would be the ideal solution. Can the XLIFF files exported by DVX be processed by other CAT tools? I thought they were in SDLXLIFF format, and thus incompatible;


Yes, you can translate Trados/Wordfast bilingual files with DVX, tags and all existing exact/fuzzy matches are imported and match percentage is displayed. DVX can translate XLIFF/SDLXLIFF files as well. AFAIK all major CAT tools can translate XLIFF files generated by DVX2.


- €600 for one client? No. €250 for one client? Maybe, but only 3 people out of the 15 required have signed up for an offer that was originally going to end today...


Thousands of translators are using DVX/DVX2.


[Edited at 2013-02-27 14:07 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Wolfgang Jörissen  Identity Verified
Belize
Member
Dutch to German
+ ...
.rtf tables Feb 27, 2013


kgeaney wrote:

- bilingual .rtf tables still mean having to copy and paste all the tags.


By no means. You just process it in the tool of your choice and you copy-paste it into the target column in on go. This rtf file you would deliver to your client who will import it into DVX2 and export the now translated original file.


Direct link Reply with quote
 
kgeaney
Local time: 06:02
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
This is sort of what I've been doing up to now. Feb 28, 2013


Wolfgang Jörissen wrote:


kgeaney wrote:

- bilingual .rtf tables still mean having to copy and paste all the tags.


By no means. You just process it in the tool of your choice and you copy-paste it into the target column in on go. This rtf file you would deliver to your client who will import it into DVX2 and export the now translated original file.


This is what I've been doing up to now, but the last time that I just ignored the tags and delivered a bilingual .rtf table, the client complained that none of the tags were in the target text and it messed up the final document. Are you saying that DVX will automatically insert the tags into the target text in an .rtf file? How does it know where to put them?


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:02
French to Polish
+ ...
Tagging codes as tw4winInternal... Feb 28, 2013


kgeaney wrote:


Wolfgang Jörissen wrote:


kgeaney wrote:

- bilingual .rtf tables still mean having to copy and paste all the tags.

By no means. You just process it in the tool of your choice and you copy-paste it into the target column in on go. This rtf file you would deliver to your client who will import it into DVX2 and export the now translated original file.


This is what I've been doing up to now, but the last time that I just ignored the tags and delivered a bilingual .rtf table, the client complained that none of the tags were in the target text and it messed up the final document.

Well, you can't blame DVX here, all CAT tools behave like that...


Are you saying that DVX will automatically insert the tags into the target text in an .rtf file? How does it know where to put them?


In fact, if you have a DVX license and notify it to the translation office, you'll not receive this kind of RTF (called External View or, shortly, EV) but rather a DVX satellite project containing the TMs, termbases etc.
In this way, you'll be able to handle the DVX tags (codes) in the native way (including the QA for tags), which is far more user friendly.

I swear, the RTF EV format is a PITA, especially for large jobs, but it's possible to tag the codes ((1), {2} etc.) as twt4winInternal, they'll be recognized as tags by all CAT tools which handle bilingual Workbench RTF files (in fact, almost all tools I'm aware except Trados Studio...).
I.e., when I receive an insane job like that (when some Trados enabled translation office is in the middle...), I always tag it like that and reimport in my own DVX.
If you want, I'll post the detailed procedure later.

You could also suggest to the translation office to use the Trados RTF or XLIFF export but the best option is IMO to buy DVX (it's cheap now...) and ask for satellite projects.

Cheers
GG


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Wolfgang Jörissen  Identity Verified
Belize
Member
Dutch to German
+ ...
XLIFF? Feb 28, 2013


kgeaney wrote:
This is what I've been doing up to now, but the last time that I just ignored the tags and delivered a bilingual .rtf table, the client complained that none of the tags were in the target text and it messed up the final document. Are you saying that DVX will automatically insert the tags into the target text in an .rtf file? How does it know where to put them?


I see what you mean, and of course, in a Word/txt based output, they would not be displayed as tags anymore. In that case, xliff might be the way to go, if your tool supports it.

[Edited at 2013-02-28 11:49 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:02
French to Polish
+ ...
By design... Feb 28, 2013


Grzegorz Gryc wrote:

(...)

I swear, the RTF EV format is a PITA...


In fact, this format was intended for the people who don't work with CAT tools.
It permits the DVX workflow for these people but you can't expect miracles...

The similar RTF exports from memoQ or Trados Studio are also a PITA for a CAT enabled translator...

Cheers
GG


Direct link Reply with quote
 
kgeaney
Local time: 06:02
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Tagging codes Mar 25, 2013


Grzegorz Gryc wrote:
it's possible to tag the codes ((1), {2} etc.) as twt4winInternal, they'll be recognized as tags by all CAT tools which handle bilingual Workbench RTF files (in fact, almost all tools I'm aware except Trados Studio...).
I.e., when I receive an insane job like that (when some Trados enabled translation office is in the middle...), I always tag it like that and reimport in my own DVX.
If you want, I'll post the detailed procedure later.
GG


Yes please, this sounds very useful. Is tagging done in DVX or outside it?


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:02
French to Polish
+ ...
Recipe Mar 26, 2013


kgeaney wrote:


Grzegorz Gryc wrote:
it's possible to tag the codes ((1), {2} etc.) as twt4winInternal, (...)
If you want, I'll post the detailed procedure later.


Yes please, this sounds very useful. Is tagging done in DVX or outside it?


In Word.
I.e.

  • Copy the Source column to the Target.

  • Copy the tw4winInternal style in the document.
    For this purpose, e.g. you can pretranslate the file in Workbench against an empty TM, don't check the Segment unknown sentences checkbox.

  • Ctrl+H, replace \{*\) by ^& (use wildcards), select the style tw4winInternal for the target (click on the Format button etc.).

  • Mark all the columns except Target as tw4winExternal

It should do the job.

For most tools you should pretranslate the file in Workbench another time with the Segment unknown sentences checkbox checked.
Studio doesn't handle bilingual Workbench RTF files but it should accept the tagged file "as is".

Cheers
GG


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Pages in topic:   [1 2] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:

Moderator(s) of this forum
Emanuela Galdelli[Call to this topic]

You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Is Déjà Vu compatible with anything?






memoQ translator pro 2013
ProZ.com members receive a 20% discount on memoQ

memoQ is a tool from translators to translators: no matter whether your clients give you files in the original file formats or supply you with project packages in other translation tools, you can use memoQ to guarantee timely delivery, high productivity a

More info »
Across Personal Edition – Free Full Version for Freelance Translators
Across is an integrated CAT tool, which means that you will find everything you need in one place.

Freelance translators receive a full version of Across Personal Edition, a single-workstation version of Across, for free. You are always working in one and the same environment, regardless of whether you would like to create a new project, translate a do

More info »