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Delinquent outsourcer - help needed
Thread poster: Olga Simon

Olga Simon  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 10:27
English to Russian
+ ...
Apr 19, 2002

Dear colleagues!



I need help in locating a delinquent outsourcer from Amsterdam, who contacted me for an urgent job 6 weeks ago.



All communication (except the text, which was faxed over to me) was handled via e-mail. First 2 weeks after the job had been delivered the outsourcer kept pomising that the payment \"would be forwarded the following week\". About 3-4 weeks ago he disappeared for good and stopped answering my e-mails.



The situation is bit complex, as the fax letterhead indicates the company based in the UK, whereas the fax itself came from the following telephone number: +31 20 462 40 80. As for the e-mail address - it belongs to \".yahoo.fr\" domain.

I am purplexed and could use any kind of hep.



I think since the e-mail can be accessed all over the world it does not really help the investigation here. What matters it the fax number. The following results I got from my Internet search:



Destination information on +3120

Location information

Residential or exchange location:

Amstelveen/Amsterdam/Badhoevedorp/Bovenkerk/Broek In Waterland/Buiksloot/Den Ilp/Diemen/Duivendrecht/Durgerdam/Halfweg Nh/Holysloot/Ilpendam/Landsmeer/Nes aan de Amstel/Nieuwe Meer/Nieuwedam/Oude Meer/Ouderkerk aan de Amstel/Ransdorp/Ruigoord/Schellingwoude/Schiphol/Uitdam/Watergang/Waver/Zuiderwoude/Zunderdorp/Zwanenburg



I do not understand what it says. Highly possible that there is no additional information.



My question is the following: since I have found out that this company (or subsidiary) is located in Amsterdam, what else can I do? Is there any collection agency that I could contact via e-mail (obviously, I am not from Holland, I am from Budapest, Hungary, but at present I am even further - on a long term business trip in Moldova).



Thank you everybody in advance.

Olga.



P.S. Oh, and of course, I can not disclose this company on ProZ Agency Ratings page, since this is not a translation agency and the only name I have for it is \"MBE\" (\"Mail Boxes Etc\") with their UK address - but I have doubts that this company and the so-called outsourcer have anything in common (the company is dealing with mail and courier services and the text was on religion).


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Evert DELOOF-SYS  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 10:27
Member
English to Dutch
+ ...
very tricky one Apr 19, 2002

and sorry to say so, but you should have been more careful...



A company registered in the UK, sending a fax from The Netherlands (yet, this company has no subsidiaries in The Netherlands; at least none are mentioned on their website pages)

and using a yahoo.fr e-mail address ?



I just dialled the indicated number: fax indeed.

I then called the international phone services and they informed me you can\'t trace a company (or registered private person) in The Netherlands when you only have a fax/phone number (you can in Belgium, though).

The only thing you can do is send a fax/e-mail and hope they\'ll answer.



Other than that I would certainly file a complaint with MBE (someone is using their fax letterhead) and take it from there.

Go to:

http://www.mbe.com/NavFrameSource.cfm?height=49&left=leftnavContactMBE.htm&content=ContactMBE/contactmbe.cfm



MBE is a UPS company. Centers are owned and operated by licensed franchisees of Mail Boxes Etc. Inc. in the USA and by its master licensees or their franchisees outside the USA.



I can\'t imagine they\'ll like to hear such stories.



Maybe someone else has better suggestions?



Good luck anyway!





_________________



[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-04-19 11:53 ]


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Jacques Van de Velde  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 10:27
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Delinquent /Fraudulous so called customer Apr 19, 2002

Idea about the fax number:

Try te get in touch with a (Dutch) colleague translator who has the Dutch Telephone Directory CD-Rom (those can be purchased in regular book or PC Stores in Holland)

It is not impossible that this CD has a search engine that allows reverse searching i.e. searching on the tel / fax nr and hopefully locate the address, name etc. if the address is not fake either.



The destination info is useless. What it means is

+ is for international prefix

31 is the country code for Holland

20 is the area code for Amsterdam (without the 0 if calling from inside Holland) and the names you see are the city/suburb/communes/etc that are serviced by the prefix (0)20



There are collection agencies in Holland but the amount should justify their own fee and you should be able to produce some written evidence.

Jacques Van de Velde







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Egmont
Spain
Local time: 10:27
Afrikaans to Spanish
+ ...
BE CAREFUL! Apr 19, 2002

In those cases, ask always the payment in advance. It is the best solution according to my experience.
[addsig]


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Massimo Lencioni  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:27
English to Italian
+ ...
Consulate of Thailand Apr 19, 2002

I did a Google search on the fax number you mentioned and miraculously enough the following link popped up:

http://www.tra.nl/adressen.html

It seems to be the fax number of the Consulate of Thailand. You can find the corresponding phone number and address on the same page.

The story is getting more complex by the minute

I hope this will help you in your quest.



Katja


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Natalie  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 10:27
Member (2002)
English to Russian
+ ...

MODERATOR
Hi Olga, Apr 19, 2002

I found that the fax number you provided belongs to Hoegen Dijkhof Advocaten. Here\'s the URL:

http://www.icclaw.com/lfe/firms/b11164.htm

You can find their phone number and email there.

Wishing you every success,

Natalia


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Olga Simon  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 10:27
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Law company - HOEGEN DIJKHOF ADVOCATEN ? Apr 19, 2002

Dear friends!



I would love to call all of you friends, not just colleagues.



Thanks to everybody, all of you are so helpful! Yes, I know it is partly my fault, I should have been more careful and paranoid. I still believe in some old fashioned values, I guess. The only thing I can say is that the job was really urgent and I started working right away after having gotten the e-mail order and the fax.



One of you has sent me an e-mail (no posting on the forum, though, therefore I do not know if (s)he wants his/her name to be disclosed, well, I will not mentioned the name then) with the following information, that the fax number belongs to a law company. Here\'s the URL:

http://www.icclaw.com/lfe/firms/b11164.htm



I checked the URL and looked one more time at the fax I got from them - identical! How do you like it?

Now, I have to decide if it makes sense to try to make a law company pay when they do not want to. Sitting in Moldova...



At least by now I know who they are. I do not think I can do too much, though. And I still can not warn others not to mess with them. Agency ratings page is solely for the translation agencies. Unfortunately.



I appreciate all of your answers, thank you one more time and have a great weekend!



Olga.



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Natalie  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 10:27
Member (2002)
English to Russian
+ ...

MODERATOR
Our postings were simultaneous... Apr 19, 2002

as always!

Cheers,

N.


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Olga Simon  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 10:27
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Ooops! Sorry for double posting! Apr 19, 2002

I can not delete the first one (the one without a smile at the end).



As Evert suggested I will notify MBE as well.









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Evert DELOOF-SYS  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 10:27
Member
English to Dutch
+ ...
double posting edited - law company? Apr 19, 2002

Then you surely stand a good chance.

You should now file a complaint (or at least inform) with the appropriate court in Amsterdam and/or with the \'Nederlandse Orde van Advocaten\'



http://www.rechtspraak.nl/gerechtshof/amsterdam/



http://advocaten.startplaza.nl/go.asp?485



And since you now have their full coordinates, I, therefore, suggest you sent them a registered letter immediately. Tell them about your intentions to inform the mentioned authorities/official bodies.



Even if the sum involved doesn\'t amount to anything really, that\'s what I\'d do. Call it a \'principle\'.


[addsig]


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Silvina Beatriz Codina  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 05:27
Member (2002)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Purchase Order? Apr 19, 2002

This is becoming more Le Carré by the minute



Olga, (and I apologize if I am asking something obvious) did you ask for a PO? (Purchase Order). Both agencies and direct clients must send you a PO whenever they order a job. It is not as if payment is sure to come with the PO, but without it, you don\'t really have any document proving that you had any dealings with these people. Besides, a PO must include addresses, phone numbers, and other information about the outsourcer that you can check beforehand.



I\'m sorry to say that this case doesn\'t look good (all this multiplicity of addresses and numbers is definitely suspect). I have to say that, as a rule, I only accept rush jobs from clients I know and trust, or that are known to me to have a good reputation.



Can you really run a Google search for a phone number? Wow, I must try that!



[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-04-19 15:28 ]


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Bertha S. Deffenbaugh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:27
English to Spanish
+ ...
Cheers! Apr 19, 2002

Congratulations to the colleagues on their brilliant ideas and all the support and help given to Olga.



Olga, good luck!



Don\'t forget to inform us how you did.


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bochkor
Local time: 04:27
English to German
+ ...
You sitting in Minsk or them being a law firm doesn't mean a thing! Apr 19, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-04-19 14:55, jazyk wrote:

Then you surely stand a good chance.

You should now file a complaint (or at least inform) with the appropriate court in Amsterdam and/or with the \'Nederlandse Orde van Advocaten\'



http://www.rechtspraak.nl/gerechtshof/amsterdam/



http://advocaten.startplaza.nl/go.asp?485



And since you now have their full coordinates, I, therefore, suggest you sent them a registered letter immediately. Tell them about your intentions to inform the mentioned authorities/official bodies.



Even if the sum involved doesn\'t amount to anything really, that\'s what I\'d do. Call it a \'principle\'.





This is the best advice I urge you to follow up on. And don\'t be intimidated at all by you sitting in Minsk or by them being a law firm: it doesn\'t mean a thing, if they get into trouble with the law! So swing into action now and write them a letter at least in English or maybe someone could help with the Dutch translation, if you get a reply in Dutch only!



Also, can anyone (maybe from Holland or Europe) suggest to Olga a Dutch or a European (Europe-wide) collection agency?

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Cynthia Brals-Rud  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:27
English to Spanish
+ ...
Late, but anyway... Apr 23, 2002

Hi Olga,



If you still have any doubts, you can double-check doing the following.



Go to www.ikhebje.nl



The, click on \"zoeken op nummer\"



You\'ll see 2 windows. Introduce the area code in the top one and the actual phone number in the case below.



Maybe more info will become available. It\'s search via phone number.



Good luck!



Cynthia


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Cynthia Brals-Rud  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:27
English to Spanish
+ ...
Area and phone numbers Apr 23, 2002

In this case:



020 is the area code

462 40 80 is the phone number



Good luck!



Cynthia


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