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Onis soit qui mal y pense!!!
Thread poster: xxxRimbaud
xxxRimbaud
Local time: 17:41
English to French
+ ...
Jun 29, 2002

\"- Sous l\'Ancienne Angleterre, si on n\'était pas membre de la famille royale, on ne pouvait pas avoir de relations sexuelles sans l\'accord du Roi.Pour avoir un bébé, il fallait demander audience auprès du Roi, qui vous remettait un panneau à clouer sur votre porte pendant le rapport.Sur le panneau était écrit F.U.C.K. pour : Fornication Under Consent of King.Vous connaissez maintenant l\'origine de ce mot.\"

Donc, juste un moment d\'ethymologie intense...

Rimbaud

D\'autres origines de mots....


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Jane Lamb-Ruiz  Identity Verified
French to English
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Beware of folk etymologies Jun 29, 2002

here you are: from: http://www.wordorigins.org/wordorf.htm#fuck



\"Popular etymologies agree, unfortunately incorrectly, that this is an acronym meaning either Fornication Under Consent of the King or For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge. The latter usually accompanying a story about how medieval prisoners were forced to wear this word on their clothing.

Deriving the etymology of this word is difficult, as it has been under a taboo for most of its existence and citations are rare. The earliest known use, according to American Heritage and Lighter, predates 1500 and is from a poem written in a mix of Latin and English and entitled \'Flen flyys.\' The relevant line reads:



\"Non sunt in celi quia fuccant uuiuys of heli.\"

Translated:

\"They [the monks] are not in heaven because they fuck the wives of Ely [a town near Cambridge].\"

Fuccant is a pseudo-Latin word and in the original it is written in cipher to further disguise it.

Ayto mentions the word\'s use in 1278 as a personal name, John le Fucker , but fails to provide a citation. The earliest usage cite in the OED2 dates from 1503 and is in the form \'fukkit.\' The earliest cite of the current spelling is from 1535.



The word was not in common (published) use prior to the 1960s. Shakespeare did not use it, although he did hint at it for comic effect. In Merry Wives of Windsor (IV.i) he gives us the pun \"focative case.\" In Henry V (IV.iv), the character Pistol threatens to \"firk\" a French soldier, a word meaning \"to strike,\" but commonly used as an Elizabethan euphemism for fuck. In the same play (III.iv), Princess Katherine confuses the English words \"foot\" and \"gown\" for the French \"foutre\" and \"coun\" (fuck and cunt, respectively) with comic results. Other poets did use the word, although it was far from common. Robert Burns, for example, used it in an unpublished manuscript.



The taboo was so strong that for 170 years, from 1795 to 1965, fuck did not appear in a single dictionary of the English language. In 1948, the publishers of The Naked and the Dead persuaded Norman Mailer to use the euphemism \"fug\" instead, resulting in Dorothy Parker\'s comment upon meeting Mailer: \"So you\'re the man who can\'t spell fuck.\"



The root is undoubtedly Germanic, as it has cognates in other Northern European languages: Middle Dutch fokken meaning to thrust, to copulate with; dialectical Norwegian fukka meaning to copulate; and dialectical Swedish focka meaning to strike, push, copulate, and fock meaning penis. Both French and Italian have similar words, foutre and fottere respectively. These derive from the Latin futuere.



While these cognates exist, they are probably not the source of fuck, rather they probably come from a common root. Most of the early known usages of the English word come from Scotland, leading some scholars to believe that the word comes from Scandinavian sources. Others disagree, believing that the number of northern citations reflects that the taboo was weaker in Scotland and the north, resulting in more surviving usages. The fact that there are citations, albeit fewer of them, from southern England dating from the same period seems to bear out this latter theory.



There is also an elaborate explanation that has been circulating on the internet for some years regarding English archers, the Battle of Agincourt, and the phrase Pluck Yew! This explanation is a modern jest--a play on words. However, there may be a bit of truth to it. The British (it\'s virtually unknown in America) gesture of displaying the index and middle fingers with the back of the hand outwards (a reverse peace sign)--meaning the same as displaying the middle finger alone--may derive from the French practice of cutting the fingers off captured English archers. Archers would taunt the French on the battlefield with this gesture, showing they were intact and still dangerous. The pluck yew part is fancifully absurd. This is not the origin of the middle finger gesture, which is truly ancient, being referred to in classical Greek and Roman texts.



For more information on fuck and its usages, see The F Word , by Jesse Sheidlower, Random House, 1999, ISBN 0-375-70634-8. This is perhaps the most comprehensive treatment of the word available.\"



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Maya Jurt  Identity Verified
Switzerland
Local time: 17:41
Member (2002)
French to German
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Honni soit qui mal y pense! Jun 29, 2002



[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-06-29 22:43 ]


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Maya Jurt  Identity Verified
Switzerland
Local time: 17:41
Member (2002)
French to German
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Honni soit qui mal y pense! Jun 29, 2002

May be we should stick to the grammatically correct.



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Jean-Luc Dumont  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 17:41
English to French
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There had to be some "French".... !!!:) Jun 29, 2002

I am glad there had to be some French invloved in this topic (even if only the article \"le\" in John \"le\" F....\")if not some \"highly moral-minded\" people would have said this had nothing to do in this forum....



John le Fucker ...[...].... In Henry V (IV.iv), the character Pistol threatens to \"firk\" a French soldier, a word meaning \"to strike,\" but commonly used as an Elizabethan euphemism for fuck. In the same play (III.iv), Princess Katherine confuses the English words \"foot\" and \"gown\" for the French \"foutre\" and \"coun\" (fuck and cunt, respectively) with comic results. ...]





and no, Katherine\'s \"faux-pas\" is not the origin of the expression \"prendre son pied\" which comes from an old French expression meaning \"to take one\'s part of the bounty\" (prendre sa part du butin) and was eventually misused to take the meaning of \"prendre son ou (du) plaisir\", jouir....\"(cf Le Petit Robert).



Jean-Luc



PS - ok soccer (as we were reminded) and sex (I am being proactive for the \"incoming\" attacks against Rimbaud and Jane\'s topics) have nothing to do in Proz forums mais sourire ou rire dans un forum ne nuit pas


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Intergraf  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:41
Spanish to English
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Onis, or OVNIS?? Jun 30, 2002

Here are a couple of sites along more \"elevated\" lines of thought - pun fully intended



OVNIS... soit qui mal y pense

http://groups.msn.com/OVNISsoitquimalypense/_homepage.msnw?pgmarket=fr-ca



OVNI soit qui mal y pense

http://lunenoire.free.fr/enquete/Ovnisoit.htm



And for a more rounded, complete, multi-media type experience, try the following sound file:



About the word \"fuck\"

http://soundz.boo-ted.com/wavz/fuk101.wav



Terry


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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:41
Member (2000)
Russian to English
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Honi soit qui mal y pense Jun 30, 2002

…is of course the motto of the Order of the Garter, founded by King Henry V after his meeting with Princess Katharine (Shakespeare, Henry V, Act V, Scene II), in the course of which he noticed one of her stockings was hanging round her ankles, and said to her in his execrable French: “Honey, soie que mal y pend…” meaning, he thought, “Honey, your silk stocking’s hanging down”. He then sent someone to fetch her a garter.

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xxxRimbaud
Local time: 17:41
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER
Juste une pointe d'humour..... Jun 30, 2002

Je voulais juste faire une pointe d\'humour... de mauvais gout... soit !

Awfully sorry if I offended someone

Sincerement,

Rimbaud


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Intergraf  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:41
Spanish to English
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RE: "de mauvais gout... soit !" Jul 2, 2002

Hey, \"chacun à son goût\" as as they say!



Haven\'t noticed anyone complaining or being offended and/or outraged by the topic so far - in fact, I\'d say we\'ve all kind of jumped right in rather gleefully. And a lot of comments have been very tongue-in-cheek.



Which is probably not a good expression to use given the topic, but what the hey! [\"grin\" - in case the smiley I tried does funky things when I post]



After being cross-eyed working on a hard translation, it\'s good to find humour around here - and this type of raunchy humour was not something I expected at ProZ. It\'s nice to see people letting their hair down!



Just don\'t take flight and overdo it!



Terry





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