TM (Trados, Wordfast, etc) is not for Vietnamese?
Thread poster: Phong Le

Phong Le  Identity Verified
Vietnam
Local time: 15:57
Vietnamese
+ ...
Aug 1, 2008

Hi,

For Vietnamese language, the TM software is likely not useful. Shane Wall used to try to introduce 01 in Vietnam but all the freelancers I know do not enjoy.

What do you think?

Do you know anyone in Proz, using TM now? can he post some opinion/experience here. Thank you.

L. Phong


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John Di Rico  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 10:57
Member (2006)
French to English
Why not? Aug 1, 2008

Xin chao Phong,

I'm curious to know why TM software is "likely not useful" for people translating with Vietnamese. It seems to work with countless other language combinations (with several tens of thousands of translators using it around the world)...

Good luck,

John
Toi la mot giao vien (Wordfast) !


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Wolfgang Jörissen  Identity Verified
Belize
Member
Dutch to German
+ ...
Definitely useful Aug 1, 2008

To be honest, I do not know a word of Vietnamese, but I think a word is a word and a sentence is a sentence in any language. And Vietnamese even uses the Latin alphabet.

Maybe your colleagues did not fully understand the concept of CAT tools and had too high expectations. And maybe in fact (this is pure speculation from my side, forgive me if I am wrong), the Vietnamese language has a different structure that leads to a lesser amount of matches within a text.

But CAT is not only about matches and repetitions. The concordance function is at least as important. In my case, 85% of the translations I did in the last 10 years are stored in a large TM and it is always helpful to find out how I translated a certain term in - let's say - 2002. I would not like to miss that for the world.


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Phong Le  Identity Verified
Vietnam
Local time: 15:57
Vietnamese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Why and Why not? Aug 3, 2008

Hi All,

Thank you very much for your posts in Vietnamese language. I think there are several possible reasons:

1) The workload of freelancers in Vietnam are not big enough to utilise the TM software (TMS).

2) Until now, there is no volunteer to use the TMS as the first action step in translation step.

3) Not sure why the big translation company do not use.

4) The written style of Vietnamese language is so different with the English and in various context the written is different.

5) ......


I personally contacted Trados on their website to ask for some technical questions and not responded.

Can I suggest the Mods of this forum send this link of this post to all Vietnamese freelancer of proz.com to see their comments.

L. Phong


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Fabio Descalzi  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 05:57
Member (2004)
German to Spanish
+ ...
Some suggestions Aug 3, 2008

Unicode translation in TRADOS: http://www.proz.com/topic/13589
Wrong font displayed in Workbench: http://www.proz.com/topic/20029
Trados 2007 supporting Vietnamese: http://www.proz.com/topic/78644
Vietnamese display in Trados: http://www.proz.com/topic/103636

Good luck!


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tvtruc
Vietnam
Local time: 15:57
English to Vietnamese
Translation Tool is good for all language including Vietnamese Aug 3, 2008

I used SDLX and Trados since day 1 for translating from English into Vietnamese. I can't live without these tools now, unless I stop translating:)

I am currently using Trados 7. To be honest, it was not easy when I started using Trados. SDLX is more straightforward but not many people use it, compared to Trados. But when you get used to it, it is not dispensable.

I think SDL provide some training courses online. You can check it out at sdl.com.

Happy translating!

[Edited at 2008-08-03 01:52]


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Anh Phan  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:57
Vietnamese to English
+ ...
CAT Tools for Vietnamese translation: YES! Aug 3, 2008

I agree that CAT tools are still a very exotic concept to Vietnamese translators. The possible reasons are:

1. Most translators and translation companies in Vietnam have never heard of CAT tools and do not even know that such a thing exists.

2. Even when they become aware of CAT tools, it is not easy to learn how to use them. Imagine you have been riding a bike all your life and are happy with it, and then one day you were told helicopters exist and they would help you go much faster, but you'd have to learn how to fly them yourselves using just the manuals provided. Not to mention the prohibitive costs of buying one, then the fuel and maintenance! And what if the engine stops while you are hovering over the Pacific Ocean?

3. There is no professional organisation of translators/interpreters (T/I) in Vietnam which helps them to talk to each other, improve their professional skills, learn new things and communicate with other (inter)national associations of (T/I) in the world.

I only learn of CAT tools, Wordfast to be more specific, from AUSIT where I am a member. It took me months to find out how it works, partly because I could only spend half an hour between work and other family commitments about once a week to find my way around. But when I understood the basics of it, I was so excited I asked Shane to come and train all the staff where I was working (I was not the employer, no) on it. I am still using only the most basic function of Wordfast now (haven't been able to find that half an hour to learn the other functions) but am very happy with it and really can't live without it.

Sorry for rambling on, but in a word, yes, CAT Tools (not only TM) do work with Vietnamese. I suggest you try Wordfast - being a complete dummy in anything logical and scientific as I am, I could still work it out, so it must not be too difficult for a lawyer-cum-engineer And there are of course people like Shane Wall and John
who know all about it.

If I can be of any help, please let me know.

Anh


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Linh Nguyen  Identity Verified
Vietnam
Local time: 15:57
Member (2007)
English to Vietnamese
+ ...
CAT Tool for Vietnamese: It works. Aug 4, 2008

In my opinion, CAT Tools is quite useful for Vietnamese translators. It's just the way you can utilize all of its benefits.

In fact, some CAT Tools have not fully supported Vietnamese (even Trados 2007, Wordfast...). The problems are encoding font systems mostly so I prefer using SDLX at present. I completed several big projects (50.000~120.000words), and actually, TMs make things better, especially for final translation.

For some cases, due to special characteristics of Vietnamese (style) , you have to proofread the translation for ensuring PERFECT translation.

Kind regards,

Linh Ng.


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Lys Nguyen  Identity Verified
Vietnam
Local time: 15:57
Member (2005)
English to Vietnamese
+ ...
No problem for projects with big volumes from 200,000 words Sep 19, 2008

From my experience, no problem for the usage of CAT-tool until now.

Best regards,
Lys Nguyen


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Shane Wall  Identity Verified
Vietnam
Local time: 15:57
Vietnamese to English
+ ...
CAT is totally FOR Vietnamese! Dec 1, 2008

I have used these tools professionally to translate VI/EN since 1997, they have 'made' my career!

As the only Authorized Wordfast Trainer in Vietnam, the biggest feedback "issue" I get from VI translators is ignorance and unrealistic expectations. In general, most people don't understand the potential of CAT tools, nor the realistic limitations that ALL CAT tools have. Many expect the tool to do all the work and the translator only has to rake in the profits!!!

To help educate people, I am running another Introduction to CAT Tools/Wordfast Training Seminar on 6th December in HCMC. I urge everyone in improving their translation work and skills to attend. We are also planning a Seminar in Hanoi as soon as we locate a suitable venue.

If you cannot access the above web page or can suggest a suitable venue in Hanoi, contact me directly at: shanewalltranslingualexpresscom.

Cheers,
Shane

www.translingualexpress.com


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Phong Le  Identity Verified
Vietnam
Local time: 15:57
Vietnamese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for ALL Apr 23, 2009

Hi All,

Thank you very much for your comments on this topic.

I would think that I will have to change my thought very soon and I should try to use CAT tool whenever my translation is the main job.

Anyway, I have another question: If CAT tool is very good for Vietnamese language, why is there almost no any web translation support for this language, e.g. babelfish, etc

Especially, google has recently provided the support for translation of Eng ----> VNese and the result is funny.

Example: Eng --> VNese
"Please, could you give us an appointement to establish status of main equipments approval, prior to the meeting with the owner next week."

"Xin vui lòng, bạn có thể cung cấp cho chúng tôi một appointement để thiết lập trạng thái của chính các thiết bị phê duyệt, trước khi cuộc họp với các chủ sở hữu kế tiếp trong tuần."

Example: VNese ---> Eng

"Đường Ba Tháng Hai"
"In the two road"

There are many other funny results that people sending each other by email.

Have a good day.

[Edited at 2009-04-23 23:37 GMT]


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Quang Ngo
Local time: 15:57
English to Vietnamese
+ ...
machine translation is not CAT Oct 5, 2009

Hi Phong,

Your dreadful examples are what is known as automatic or machine translation. This should not be confused with Computer Aided Translation (CAT).

It is important to know in machine translation, the computer does the translation (by following certain rules ) without understanding the full meaning of the text, while in CAT, the human translator does the work and uses the CAT tool simply to improve his/her speed and accuracy.

Regards,


Phong Le wrote:

Hi All,

Thank you very much for your comments on this topic.

I would think that I will have to change my thought very soon and I should try to use CAT tool whenever my translation is the main job.

Anyway, I have another question: If CAT tool is very good for Vietnamese language, why is there almost no any web translation support for this language, e.g. babelfish, etc

Especially, google has recently provided the support for translation of Eng ----> VNese and the result is funny.

Example: Eng --> VNese
"Please, could you give us an appointement to establish status of main equipments approval, prior to the meeting with the owner next week."

"Xin vui lòng, bạn có thể cung cấp cho chúng tôi một appointement để thiết lập trạng thái của chính các thiết bị phê duyệt, trước khi cuộc họp với các chủ sở hữu kế tiếp trong tuần."

Example: VNese ---> Eng

"Đường Ba Tháng Hai"
"In the two road"

There are many other funny results that people sending each other by email.

Have a good day.

[Edited at 2009-04-23 23:37 GMT]


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Jeff Allen  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 10:57
Member (2011)
Multiplelanguages
+ ...
MT software products are CAT tools Nov 21, 2009

Quang Ngo wrote:
Hi Phong,

Your dreadful examples are what is known as automatic or machine translation. This should not be confused with Computer Aided Translation (CAT).

It is important to know in machine translation, the computer does the translation (by following certain rules ) without understanding the full meaning of the text, while in CAT, the human translator does the work and uses the CAT tool simply to improve his/her speed and accuracy.



Quang,

Your statement is not quite true which I have explained in various other threads here on Proz.
See:

CAT, MT, TM, MAHT, HAMT and other acronyms are related
http://www.proz.com/post/1128766#1128766

it is true that the online free MT portals do not provide interactive working with texts as do the Translation Memory tools.
However, the majority of MT products that are sold as desktop products or client-server systems (mainly the mid-range, pro and expert versions) do have translation environments which do offer various HCI (human-computer interaction) features that do make them a CAT tool.

Jeff


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samvietnam  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:57
English to Vietnamese
+ ...
TMs are definitely for Vietnamese Feb 6, 2010

I have used Trados for more than 10 years since the software did not support Unicode (Version 5.5), I had to use VNI code for translation.
Using Trados, it is possible to ensure translation consistency, quality and timely delivery. The bigger your translation memory is the less work you need to do; meanwhile you can still maintain your income and even increase income from translation work. Once I even got US$2000 for one day of translating technical documents which contain a lot of repetitions.
I am sure, TMs reduce costs and save time for translators as well as their clients.
Now SDL Trados 2009 contains incredible technologies to support translators including MultiTerm, AutoSuggest Dictionary. Lots of tedious works have been reduced and translation work become faster and more accurate than ever.
If you still doubt about TMs, just try to test a CAT software, you will see the difference.

I am an approved trainer for SDL Trados, if you have any questions, feel free to contact me.
http://www.sdl.com/certified/46975

[Edited at 2010-02-06 19:15 GMT]


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