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Off topic: German hyphenation at LL Bean...
Thread poster: rjbemben
rjbemben  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:54
Member (2004)
German to English
Apr 7, 2004

I was just reading one of those frequent e-mail sales announcements from LL Bean, and it occurred to me that the following might be an incursion of German hyphenation into the English language:

"Now in Wrinkle- and Stain-Resistant Cotton"

Does this conform to English hyphenation rules? LL Bean also uses a hyphen for their "Easy-Care" fabric, but I'm most curious about their "Nano-Care" fabric (i.e. very miniscule amount of care required). How to translate "Nano-Care" into German?


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Klaus Herrmann  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 20:54
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
There they are... Apr 7, 2004

I have been wondering about where all our hyphens have gone. They are taking a vacation enjoying fish&chips. Send them back anytime you want

The answer to your question is quite simple: Nano Pflege...


[Edited at 2004-04-07 18:40]


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rjbemben  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:54
Member (2004)
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Hyphens gone fishing Apr 7, 2004

The answer to your question is quite simple: Nano Pflege...


[Edited at 2004-04-07 18:40][/quote]

Or maybe "Nanu-Pflege" ("Nanu, das Ding brauche ich gar nicht zu pflegen!")


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Terry Gilman  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 20:54
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
Anticipatory hyphen Apr 7, 2004

Ich mache mir mehr Sorgen über Apostrophen. (z.B. Heute abend: Blu's)

Tut mir leid, ist halt auf E.

The anticipatory hyphen is used in AmE, and supported by Oxford:

The places where it does matter are summarized in The New Fowler's Modern English Usage (1996), the most important being

1. to make clear the unifying of the sense in compound expressions such as punch-drunk, cost-benefit analysis, or weight-carrying, or compounds in attributive use (that is, in front of the noun), as in an up-to-date list or the well-known performer;

2. to join a prefix to a proper name (e.g. anti-Darwinian);

3. to avoid misunderstanding by distinguishing phrases such as twenty-odd people and twenty odd people, or a third-world conflict and a third world conflict;

4. to clarify the use of a prefix, as in recovering from an illness and re-covering an umbrella;

5. to clarify compounds with similar adjacent sounds, such as sword-dance, co-opt, tool-like.

6. to represent the use of a common element in a list of compounds, such as four-, six-, and eight-legged animals.

7. in dividing a word across a line-break.

Guidance on word division is given in reference books such as the Oxford Colour Spelling Dictionary (1996).


http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutspelling/hyphen?view=uk


[Edited at 2004-04-07 21:40]


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ntext  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:54
German to English
+ ...
It only looks German ... Apr 7, 2004

... if you happen to know German.

Obviously, suspended hyphens are much more common in German than in English. However, in the example you mentioned, the hyphenation is indeed correct. The rule:

Suspended hyphens

Use a suspended hyphen when a base word, such as year in the example below, or a suffix or prefix such as self, is doing double duty.

second- and third-year law students
self-initiated and -implemented projects

Use this construction even when the complete words, standing alone, would be closed up.

macro- and microeconomics


http://www.jhsph.edu/Press_Room/style_manual/c.html


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rjbemben  Identity Verified
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German to English
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Similar rule in German? Apr 8, 2004

Norbert Gunther Kramer wrote:

Use this construction even when the complete words, standing alone, would be closed up.

macro- and microeconomics



The examples you cite are very clear, but the "anticipatory hyphen" sometimes becomes a "befuddlement hyphen" in German with noun concatenation, e.g.

Energie- bzw. Netzwerkmanagementaufbau

Where should the division be made?


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rjbemben  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:54
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German to English
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German rules? Apr 8, 2004

Terry Gilman wrote:

Ich mache mir mehr Sorgen über Apostrophen. (z.B. Heute abend: Blu's)




[Edited at 2004-04-07 21:40]


As in "the Blues"?

It seems that hyphens can be exploited advantageously in English, especially in resolving ambiguities, and the LL Bean ad is o.k. grammatically ("Easy-Care" and "Nano-Care" don't need a hyphens, but what the heck). Now I'm wondering what the rules are in German. Here's an example of the sort of thing I encounter where hyphens ADD to the ambiguity:
"Energie- bzw. Netzwerkmanagementaufbau"
begs the question where do we divvy up the compound word?
To achieve clarity in translations into English I usually rely on context and get RID of the "anticipatory hyphenated phrase"!


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Guenther Danzer  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:54
English to German
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Regel? Schaut euch mal den folgenden Link an: Apr 9, 2004

http://www.ids-mannheim.de/pub/laufend/sprachreport/reform/reformC.html

Oops! Sorry guys for using German in my heading!

I will go to the Japanese forum now to have a look if they are chatting in German


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rjbemben  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:54
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German to English
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Doppel-Ooops Apr 9, 2004

Guenther Danzer wrote:


Oops! Sorry guys for using German in my heading!

I will go to the Japanese forum now to have a look if they are chatting in German


Na ja, ich bin eigentlich daran Schuld, dass ich mein 'Posting' auf Englisch schreibe. Unter Mannheim-IDS fand ich uebrigens nichts ueber diese Art Bindestrich. Es geht hier um den Bindestrich, der "fuer einen ausgesparten Wortteil steht" (Duden). Ich moechte mich einfach darueber klagen, dass bei dieser Art Aussparung auch etwas Information 'gespart' wird, d.h. verlorengeht. In der Uebersetzungspraxis es ist eigentlich egal, wie der Regel heisst, denn die deutschen Ingenieren die die Texte schreiben haben gerade deshalb die Technik studiert und nicht etwa Uni-Kurse wie ?Fragen der Deutschen Sprachreform" belegt. Ich dachte einfach, dass irgendjemand im Forum wisse (hmmm), wie man welche Wortteilmenge (wwwww....) im Beispiel wieder 'einsparen' wuerde, wenn man Energie- wieder zusammensetzt!


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Guenther Danzer  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:54
English to German
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Robert, Apr 10, 2004

unten auf der Seite gab's noch einen weiterführenden Link. Hast Du Dir den mal angeschaut? Ich hab nicht alles gelesen, aber evtl. findest Du das was.

Allen Frohe Ostern!

Günther


[Edited at 2004-04-10 09:02]


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rjbemben  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:54
Member (2004)
German to English
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'unkooperative' Bindestriche Apr 20, 2004

Guenther Danzer wrote:

unten auf der Seite gab's noch einen weiterführenden Link. Hast Du Dir den mal angeschaut? Ich hab nicht alles gelesen, aber evtl. findest Du das was.

Allen Frohe Ostern!

Günther


[Edited at 2004-04-10 09:02]


Guenther,

da ich nichts in den Links fand, schrieb ich doch mal an IDS-Mannheim. Es folgt die Antwort (zu meiner Frage ueber "Energie- bzw. Netzwerkmanagementaufbau"):

Sehr geeherter Herr Bemben,

bitte entschuldigen Sie,
dass ich Ihnen erst heute antworte:
nach Rücksprache mit unserer Abteilung Grammatik kann ich
Ihnen mitteilen, dass diese Frage in unserer bisherigen
systematischen Grammatik nicht
behandelt wurde. Sie haben aber Recht, die Verwendung des
Bindestriches ist ambig also mehrdeutig; aber es
gibt keine "illegalen" Ausdrücke, sie sind allenfalls unkooperativ,
weil sie mehrdeutig sind.

Mit freundlichem Gruß
Annette Trabold
===================================================================
Dr. Annette Trabold,
Leiterin der Arbeitsstelle Oeffentlichkeitsarbeit und
Dokumentation,
Institut für Deutsche Sprache, R5, 6-13
68161 Mannheim
Tel: 0621-1581-119
Fax: 0621-1581-200
Internet: http://www.ids-mannheim.de

[Edited at 2004-04-20 14:55]


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Guenther Danzer  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:54
English to German
+ ...
'unkooperative' Bindestriche Apr 21, 2004

Robert Bemben wrote:

da ich nichts in den Links fand, schrieb ich doch mal an IDS-Mannheim.


Die Antwort ist doch klasse. Das war's doch, was Du wissen wolltest, oder?!



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