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Discouraging advice from a translation agency owner - should I heed it?
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Thread poster: Monica Davis

Discouraging advice from a translation agency owner - should I heed it?

gad
United States
Local time: 00:25

Member
French to English

Don't be discouraged

Nov 26, 2009

Monica Davis wrote:

Now, I was rather discouraged after this. I feel like I have a relatively solid background and I feel that if I work hard, I can succeed in this business.

I think that you have a solid background. You basically have every requirement this individual cited, except for the number of years of experience.

I find it interesting that he says that all his translators have 20+ years experience, yet if I understand correctly he's also saying that he is paying them less and less. I don't know if I necessarily believe that. I mean if that is true in his case, then it must be ONLY in his case, because most translators raise their rates not lower them.

It would be great if you could find an official or unofficial mentor in the translation industry, someone who can encourage you and erase the discouragement you felt after speaking with this person.

Good luck.

dianaochoa

Switzerland
Local time: 06:25
English to Spanish
+ ...

Bunch of South Americans?

Nov 26, 2009

Kevin Lossner wrote:

... if you plan to talk to this joker again.

Actually, your language pair is a tough one as I understand the situation, but I wouldn't take a bunch of South Americans seriously as competition for high quality translation into English if that's what you can offer. In the other direction you might be toast, of course.

The idea of going freelance only after ten years is the biggest load of bunk I've heard in a while. And the bit about bilingual from an early age makes me laugh. I certainly wasn't. I don't know what's eating him, but it probably has little to do with you, and I would simply continue your research, develop a realistic plan and try it.

I am sure you didn't mean what it seems. I, for one, am a South American, proud to be. I translate quite well (although I learn every day). I even try to learn the German language...

[Edited at 2009-11-26 08:22 GMT]

[Edited at 2009-11-26 08:28 GMT]

PCovs
Denmark
Local time: 06:25

Member (2003)
English to Danish
+ ...

Mother tongue translation

Nov 26, 2009

dianaochoa wrote:

I am sure you didn't mean what it seems. I, for one, am a South American, proud to be. I translate quite well (although I learn every day). I even try to learn the German language...

[Edited at 2009-11-26 08:22 GMT]

[Edited at 2009-11-26 08:28 GMT]

I suspect Kevin is talking about mother tongue translators, where it seems you would not fit in with regard to English, am I correct.

Many feel (translators and agencies alike) that a translator should only translate into his/her mother tongue to ensure high quality translations. I agree ;o)

dianaochoa

Switzerland
Local time: 06:25
English to Spanish
+ ...

Not to miss the point....

Nov 26, 2009

PCovs wrote:

As I understand the original thread, it's not a bunch of South Americans that are discouraging. It's the owner of an agency.....
Tx for your comment.

Susan van den Ende

Netherlands
Local time: 06:25

Member (2009)

On bilingualism

Nov 26, 2009

I agree with most of the previous posters. Some added thoughts on bilingualism (adapted from an earlier posting):

Bilingualism is great in interpreting, but dangerous in translation. Many, many bilinguals only have a 97% control of both languages while claiming to have 100%. 97% is wonderful, but more often than not it's that 3% that'll get me a dissatisfied customer on the phone. Simply put: as a PM I'll hedge my bets and rather work with a translator who only translates into one target language and trains his skills in that language with ALL of his jobs, and not just with part of them.

Of course there are many exceptions, and I do indeed work with some excellent bilingual translators who master both languages for 99% and recognise it themselves when the 1% comes up.

Tomás Cano Binder, CT

Spain
Local time: 06:25

Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...

My replies to the requirements

Nov 26, 2009

1. "to be a good translator you have to brought up completely bi-lingual (i.e. in a bi-lingual household)"
Nonsense. My main pair is English-Spanish and nobody in my family is a native speaker of English. A generally accepted rule is that you must be native in the target language to be good in that language, but I know many non-natives who translate quite well into Spanish.

2. "he mostly hires translators with 20+ years experience."
OK. Then look for other customers. Not a problem.

3. "He went on to tell me how competitive the industry was"
That is true.

4. "there are people in South America who will do translations for so much cheaper"
OK. But you translate INTO English, right? In that sense, you have an advantage.

5. "Basically telling me I didn't stand a chance."
Nonsense. How can this person know? He does not even speak a foreign language and is not in the skin of a translator.

6. "I should get "immersion" in the language; I told him that I have been studying Spanish since I was 12 and spent several years in Mexico during high school and college. I am planning to move back there with my (Mexican) boyfriend this spring, with whom I only speak Spanish, so I consider that immersion experience."
I agree with you.

7. "He told me to join a professional organization like ATA; I told him I am already an ATA student member."
Great. You might want to prepare yourself for the ATA certification exams. They are tough and you really need to prepare well a lot before taking them (into English of course), but it might be a good idea.

8. "He told me to get educated in translation; I told him I have an NYU certification in Spanish - English translation."
It is always good to keep learning, so don't trust your certificate alone and do more courses if you can. As others have recommended, look for some area of business, arts, or science you find personally interesting and try to learn more about the subject, both in the source and target languages. Maybe you also want to prepare a nice glossary for future work in that area.

9. "He said most of his translators didn't go freelance until 10+ years experience in something else..."
I cannot speak for the industry as a whole, but I started as a freelance after 1,5 years at an agency, although I did have some previous translation experience. Many translators I know started as freelancers right after their getting their degree in translation.

10. "Now, I was rather discouraged after this. I feel like I have a relatively solid background and I feel that if I work hard, I can succeed in this business."
You can, and you will. You must believe in your current abilities as a good starting point, but on the other hand, being 100% satisfied with your training and experience is not a good idea in this industry. In a way, even if uncomfortable, it is better if you don't trust your knowledge and try to get more training, and spend some time in training courses every year. Meanwhile, look for translation work and gain more experience.

As other colleagues here, I think you made this person feel unsafe because of your current capabilities, much higher than his...

KSL Berlin

Germany
Local time: 06:25
German to English

What's your point?

Nov 26, 2009

dianaochoa wrote:
I am sure you didn't mean what it seems. I, for one, am a South American, proud to be. I translate quite well (although I learn every day). I even try to learn the German language...

Sorry, I don't follow you here. You translate INTO Spanish, right? Your native language? Not German. It's commendable that you are making an attempt to learn the local language in Switzerland, but I have my doubts that you'll be competitive translating into that language.

The topic originator translates OUT of Spanish INTO English. As a native speaker of English she can generally be assumed to have an advantage over South Americans, Spaniards, Mexicans, etc. when writing English. Not in all cases of course; I used to be married to a non-native whose written English was every bit as good as mine and possibly better in some cases, but she was very much the exception. People that good will be booked out quickly and not take up significant capacity in a market as large as Spanish to English. Her real competition for good quality translation INTO English will usually come from other native speakers of English.

It's important to understand one's limitations in this game. My German is very good; after about 35 years of using the language, more than half of it spent in residence in Germany and/or using it as the primary language in my home one would expect this to be the case. Even 27 years ago I could dance circles in German around the best US native German linguist the FBI could pester me with. But compared to what I can produce in English, my German translations are garbage, and I would never dream of doing commercial EN>DE work despite the academic opinion here that my translation into German is better. I prefer to use my best skills to play a market with four times the volume to my best advantage. I suspect her situation with Spanish to English will be similar.

KSL Berlin

Germany
Local time: 06:25
German to English

Racism?

Nov 26, 2009

PCovs wrote:
I am sure you should not think racism into this comment from Kevin.

Since when are South Americans a race? There is widespread confusion about the meaning of the word "racism", here in Germany as well. Apparently many people don't understand the differences between race, language, culture, social status, etc.

As is clear from my previous comment, I was merely referring to the native speaker advantage, a point underscored by the fact that Diana didn't understand the comment or the sentence that followed it, the colloquial meaning of which was presumably utterly lost on a very large number of people whose native language is not English.

That could, of course, be used as an argument for translating out of one's native language into one's second language, and José in Brazil and others do this and make the case for it very effectively. But I think such cases constitute exceptions and require very effective editing workflows involving native speakers of the target language afterward. They certainly should not be the rule in a market as cutthroat as ESEN.

My impression of the OP's basic qualifications is generally positive, and I think that with proper business planning and acceptable quality she should have a reasonable chance of success. I think it would be helpful for her to consult suitable "getting started" references like Oleg Rudavin's book on Internet Freelancing (available here at www.proz.com/books) or Corrinne McKay's book (more focused on the US market where the OP is located). The opinions of others such as myself or that agency owner are worth exactly what she paid for them.

Laurent KRAULAND

France
Local time: 06:25

Member (2007)
French to German
+ ...

Latin American market

Nov 26, 2009

I dare to think that Kevin's reference was for the Latin American market, on which an estimated colleague provides her insight through an article for which I cannot post a link. Contact me per PM if needed.

[Edited at 2009-11-26 10:01 GMT]

Charlie Bavington

United Kingdom
Local time: 05:25
French to English

Even a stopped clock...

Nov 26, 2009

... is right twice a day.

Monica Davis wrote:

He said most of his translators didn't go freelance until 10+ years experience in something else...

I disagree (like everyone else!) with most of what he said, to the extent that none of it is universally true. He is, it would seem, running a business that competes purely on price, and if you read these forums regularly, you will realise that price differentiation is not the only way.

However, I would say that I agree that the best translators do indeed appear to have significant real world experience. It depends on your field, but to have actually worked in the sector is a definite plus. To have worked in anything, using the souce language, is a plus. There really are a lot of people with a very academic understanding of language and translation and not enough hands-on experience in anything at all, such as "business" translators who are utterly stumped by the notion of an appraisal as in a kudoz question some time ago, or where this kind of situation applies:
http://www.proz.com/forum/translation_theory_and_practice/90397-being_picky_in_computer_english.html#727664 - and that kind of thing applies to tens of thousands of words in hundreds of sectors.

So if part of his advice could be paraphrased as "get a job first", I would agree with that. (Unless you're just gonna translate poetry or recipes or something.) The rest..... probably not

dianaochoa

Switzerland
Local time: 06:25
English to Spanish
+ ...

Again, not to miss the point...

Nov 26, 2009

PCovs wrote:

Kevin Lossner wrote:

PCovs wrote:
I am sure you should not think racism into this comment from Kevin.

I was merely trying to understand what made Diana continue to attack your comment, and it seemed to me she actually took offence to your choice of words (a bunch of South Americans), hence my remark about racism. And no, South Americans are not a race, but then call it what you like if not racism. That is hardly the main issue here. Diana took offence, that's the issue.

;o)

That is why we, as translators,should mind the words.
I do translate only to Spanish.
I am not at all offended.
Not only South Americans work for pennies. There are also the agencies that pay less.
We South Americans are not a race. Have you been there?
And, I can not take Kevin's comment as racist. I have read him in other threads, and found he had interesting opinions. He must be a good translator, too. And translating is about recognizing, understanding an accepting the difference!!!!

Christine Andersen

Denmark
Local time: 06:25

Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...

As has been mentioned, bilingualism can be a problem

Nov 26, 2009

You have to be consciously aware of the differences between your languages.

I was functionally bilingual when I started translating. My language of habitual usage, after living in Denmark for many years, was Danish, and it was/is up to native standard. But a lot of natives in any language do not write it at the standard necessary for translation.
The same applies to ´real´ bilinguals - they just have two native languages. But they may be anything from barely literate in both to brilliant at one or both. There are lots of definitions of bilingualism. I still do not translate into Danish, though I know several Danes who do an excellent job both ways.

It is necessary actually to study a language as well as learning it the natural way - and when I studied English for Special Purposes (economics, technology, medicine) together with Danes we were all learning a lot about both languages, from the colloquial level to the highly specialised.

Live where your language is spoken if you can, certainly visit and use the natural language, but work on it systematically. It takes time, but it is never too late to start if you really make the effort.

Which brings me to my second point:

Heinrich Pesch wrote:

But in your situation, and if you really want to be a translator (why?), learning a rare language would be worth the effort. A language spoken only in a high-wage country.

Regards
Heinrich

Living and working in Denmark, I second that! There are not enough really good translators about in some languages. We still do not earn high incomes. (OK, our rates look impressive, but when you've paid Scandinavian tax and 25% VAT on EVERYTHING, what is left to live on is adequate but not princely.)

But you can live on it, find work and enjoy it. The Indians have a proverb:

Possessing great wealth does not make you truly rich in this world. Those who are truly rich are those who are satisfied.

Best of luck and happy translating everyone!