| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Hi. I am new registered to this site Thread poster: Maria Elena Santa
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| I agree with Angie | Jul 9, 2012 |
If you left your country at the age of ten or even later, but most of your education and your higher education is in Italian, Italian will be your best language for translation purposes. It might be different with voice-overs, because you may still have some slight accent which might be deterrent for voice-overs.
| | | | Kirsten Bodart 
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:22
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Go with Angie | Jul 9, 2012 |
Nice welcome that was...
Don't involve a real newbie in this.
I have to agree with Sheila to some extent, but I tend to agree more with the Canadian guy quoted by Stanislav: if you can deliver professional quality, not in your MT (mother tongue), then that's enough. It is only given to a very few, but nonetheless, it is possible.
Personally, though, I would not list so many pairs, simply because no-one believes you, even if it were true. I can't see from h... See more Nice welcome that was...
Don't involve a real newbie in this.
I have to agree with Sheila to some extent, but I tend to agree more with the Canadian guy quoted by Stanislav: if you can deliver professional quality, not in your MT (mother tongue), then that's enough. It is only given to a very few, but nonetheless, it is possible.
Personally, though, I would not list so many pairs, simply because no-one believes you, even if it were true. I can't see from here what your real abilities are, so I am not going to judge you, but it is a fact that outsourcers find that dodgy. Whatever the truth may be - maybe you are a wonder with languages -, the point is that no-one believes it, so it is no point trying to make them believe it. To be crude: you are a fake and not to be touched with a barge pole. (I am speaking in free indirect discourse here ). It's all about appearance
If you want to assess how good your English is (there might be some issues there, as Sheila pointed out), but you are confident you can deliver good stuff in some fields (not all of them are the same and require the same style, flair and charm; advertising might be out of the question), then ask a native editor to assess your work. Ask him/her to do things with track changes so you can se where you went wrong (or non-native) and then see if that's really really really bad, or that it is still at an acceptable level.
And go with Angie. If you were not educated in Romanian, you probably have a better clue how to write something nice in Italian than in Romanian, just because you have practised it more. In all likelihood, you have also read more material in more registers in Italian than in Romanian.
I personally do well over 90% of our transltions into English, which is not my mother tongue, but I have a native speaker who checks my stuff for free . The last time I did into Dutch was several months ago. But as I said, I don't work alone.
You must remember: deliver what you promise. Appearance is all. Make a good impression (a bad impression takes an average of 10 good impressions to return to neutral again) and then also deliver the quality that good impression promised. That's all.
[Edited at 2012-07-09 17:23 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 20:22
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Are we talking native language or target language? | Jul 9, 2012 |
Kirsten Bodart wrote:
I have to agree with Sheila to some extent, but I tend to agree more with the Canadian guy quoted by Stanislav: if you can deliver professional quality, not in your MT (mother tongue), then that's enough. It is only given to a very few, but nonetheless, it is possible.
I agree, Kirsten, that some people can translate into languages (i.e. target languages) that are not their native language. Not many, and not in all fields, but they do exist.
And go with Angie. If you were not educated in Romanian, you probably have a better clue how to write something nice in Italian than in Romanian, just because you have practised it more. In all likelihood, you have also read more material in more registers in Italian than in Romanian.
Yes, in the OP's circumstances it does sound possible that Italian has replaced Romanian, or maybe is a second native language. It therefore seems possible that Marelyne is able to translate into both those languages from her source languages. EN/DE/IT into RO; EN/DE/RO into IT - that must be enough for anyone, surely! Collaboration with a native English or German translator would be a much better solution for the other pairs, IMO.
It's a real shame that universities give students such an over-inflated idea of their abilities. But then my English husband had a chat once with a professor of English at a French university. After 5 minutes of struggling they switched to French as a more effective means of communication. Sad!
Sheila
| | | | | Always a problem.. yes | Jul 9, 2012 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
Are we talking native language or target language?
Marelyne's situation is very similar to mine, in my profile I indicated French and Italian because I was born from a French mother and an Italian father, I attended French schools until 14, then we came back to Italy where I graduated and lived until 6 months ago (I am now in Spain).
So... technically speaking French is my native language, but I attended secondary Italian schools and graduated in Italian this is why... I feel as follow:
First native language: Italian
Second native language: French
Best source language ( I really love it): English
This is the reason why I wrote to Marelyne the above. I am also aware of the situation of young Romanian people attending Italian schools as I have taught in one of them until last 15 June, (most of them can just speak in Romanian but cannot write, because they attended Italian schools since early childhood).
Angie
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Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 20:22
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Yes, it does seem a similar situation. Marelyne will need to explain that situation clearly in her profile here, her CV and in job quotes, and refrain from applying for jobs where she cannot guarantee a perfect result - I think that's the only real rule.
OT: I see you, too, are part of the exodus to Spanish Isles, Angie. I gather you speak Spanish, whereas I've landed in Fuerteventura at the age of 56 as a complete beginner.... See more Yes, it does seem a similar situation. Marelyne will need to explain that situation clearly in her profile here, her CV and in job quotes, and refrain from applying for jobs where she cannot guarantee a perfect result - I think that's the only real rule.
OT: I see you, too, are part of the exodus to Spanish Isles, Angie. I gather you speak Spanish, whereas I've landed in Fuerteventura at the age of 56 as a complete beginner. Difficult but nice!
Sheila ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Exciting, really... | Jul 9, 2012 |
Sheila Wilson wrote: OT: I see you, too, are part of the exodus to Spanish Isles, Angie. I gather you speak Spanish, whereas I've landed in Fuerteventura at the age of 56 as a complete beginner. Difficult but nice! Sheila
Oh yes, it is an exciting challenge at OUR age (we are very close), I speak Spanish yes, but... being Italian-French I am continuously fighting with that huge amount of false friends, I wasn't aware they were so many until I moved here..
I have also realized that there are jokes with those...
[Edited at 2012-07-09 14:36 GMT]
| | | | | Interpreter's perspective | Jul 9, 2012 |
Since my posts, as a non-member, are vetted, any comments I submit are usually received after the event. But since the issue of intepreting has been raised, allow me to throw in my 2 cents...
In that other (in)famous forum, screeds have been written about mother tongue. One point that has been systematically overlooked is that, while most "translators" on this site are not also interpreters, some of us are and the rules of the game are, of necessity, different.
In the good ol... See more Since my posts, as a non-member, are vetted, any comments I submit are usually received after the event. But since the issue of intepreting has been raised, allow me to throw in my 2 cents...
In that other (in)famous forum, screeds have been written about mother tongue. One point that has been systematically overlooked is that, while most "translators" on this site are not also interpreters, some of us are and the rules of the game are, of necessity, different.
In the good old days, if you worked in the booths (simultaneous), you interpreted into your mother tongues. However, when working in consecutive, you work(ed) in both directions. Nowadays, even in the booths, the luxury of working into a single language no longer exists, even in many international organisations and certainly not for freelancers. So you have to be double A, whether you like it or not.
And, in some organisations, this spills over into translation (written).
In the end, the whole thing is about fitness for purpose, which then leads us towards the hornet's nest of machine translation (but let's not go there...).
Last point: I slightly resent Sheila's suggestion that if OP can't make the grade as a translator, she may be able to as an interpreter. Sorry to say this but translation is a doddle compared to interpreting, yet give me interpreting any day. You need to be on top of your game at the drop of a hat. Any weaknesses will soon rear their ugly heads.
Why do you think interpreters tend to be better paid? But I'm going off topic now. ▲ Collapse
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polyglot45 wrote:
Last point: I slightly resent Sheila's suggestion that if OP can't make the grade as a translator, she may be able to as an interpreter.
This has never been the point: we were first discussing the issue of translating into the OP's foreign language and even between two foreign languages.
Sheila pointed out that while written translation usually needs to meet high standards, that the OP may not be up to when translating into a foreign language, those standards may be lower for spoken language, so the situation for the OP might be easier in the case of interpreting, if she wants to work "the wrong way", i.e. translating/interpreting into her second/third/fourth/whatever language.
And I fully agree.
[Upraveno: 2012-07-09 15:31 GMT]
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| Sorry, I can't continue with this exchange | Jul 9, 2012 |
Words fail me.
There are those who clearly believe that interpreters can get away with murder.
But think of the chaos, diplomatic incidents, etc. they could create if they were to get things wrong.
Yours, speechless
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 20:22
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| "Translation is a doddle compared to interpreting" | Jul 9, 2012 |
polyglot45 wrote:
I slightly resent Sheila's suggestion that if OP can't make the grade as a translator, she may be able to as an interpreter.
If you think I said that, you've a right to feel resentful. I'm sorry you got that impression, but let me repeat what I said, with emphasis added:
Re-reading this thread, I was struck by another possibility, but one where I am almost totally ignorant: I wonder whether interpreting might be a good career choice for you. I know there are various types of interpreter and the jobs involved are very different. Is there a market for a fluent multilingual speaker? I suspect that the "native turn of phrase" may not be quite so important to an interpreter, simply because a listener is much less critical about the finer points about language than a reader is likely to be. Don't think I'm saying "you don't have to be so good to be an interpreter" BTW. I tried it four times before deciding I could never manage to switch so quickly between languages. Small grammar errors may pass unnoticed, but the mental effort of listening to a message and supplying an equivalent message in another language, within seconds, totally floored me.
So, I agree entirely that interpreters, particularly where they are working in both directions, do a very difficult job, and it sounds as though it has become even more difficult just lately, as you say
In the good old days, if you worked in the booths (simultaneous), you interpreted into your mother tongues. However, when working in consecutive, you work(ed) in both directions. Nowadays, even in the booths, the luxury of working into a single language no longer exists, even in many international organisations and certainly not for freelancers. So you have to be double A, whether you like it or not.
Isn't that what Marelyne maybe has (at least that's the impression we've been given)? Two "A-" languages, perhaps.
In the end, the whole thing is about fitness for purpose
Absolutely!
Sheila
| | | | | I agree with some people and disagree with others | Jul 9, 2012 |
About some ideas here, I really have to contact Noam Chomsky. I am just kidding. I definitely disagree that you should translate into Romanian at all, if you left the country at an early age and hardly used the language later on. Most of the kids who left some countries at 10, or even 12, have problems writing and reading even in their L1. You should definitely translate into your strongest language. Don't let people discourage you. if you want to be a translator you can be anything you want and... See more About some ideas here, I really have to contact Noam Chomsky. I am just kidding. I definitely disagree that you should translate into Romanian at all, if you left the country at an early age and hardly used the language later on. Most of the kids who left some countries at 10, or even 12, have problems writing and reading even in their L1. You should definitely translate into your strongest language. Don't let people discourage you. if you want to be a translator you can be anything you want and no one will stop you. Just work on your best language, and on another one you would want to translate from, and think about areas of translation you would love to specialize in. Good luck. You can read in Wikipedia about native languages and things like that.
Interpreting is much harder than translation. You have to be bilingual or 1% from truly bilingual. You cannot interpret one way, and this is where the strange idea of translating into someone's L1 loses its sense and becomes absolutely irrelevant. If you cannot translate, and are not virtually bilingual, you will never be a good interpreter, or even an interpreter at all. There aren't too many bad interpreters because people can see right away what they can and what they cannot do. Some may just be a one time interpreters.
[Edited at 2012-07-09 17:14 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 20:22
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Your article contains one short reference to immigrant children in the US. The rest of the article is talking about kids who were adopted by people from different countries, different languages, different cultures. I can well imagine the culture shock these adoptees have to endure, and of course they lose their native language.
On the other hand, my son left the UK at the tender age of 7 and at 25 he is still very much a native English speaker. He did need additional written tuition... See more Your article contains one short reference to immigrant children in the US. The rest of the article is talking about kids who were adopted by people from different countries, different languages, different cultures. I can well imagine the culture shock these adoptees have to endure, and of course they lose their native language.
On the other hand, my son left the UK at the tender age of 7 and at 25 he is still very much a native English speaker. He did need additional written tuition in English, but now has the IGCSE and I know for a fact that he writes as well as he speaks. However, all his schooling from age 7 was in French, his friends are almost all French, and he sees French as his 2nd native language.
So I don't think we can assume the OP has lost all ability in Romanian. In fact, we really can't judge Marelyne on anything but her English (unless there have been PMs between you in other languages), which is good but not "target language good".
Sheila ▲ Collapse
| | | | | You get me wrong there | Jul 9, 2012 |
polyglot45 wrote:
Sorry, I can't continue with this exchange
Words fail me.
There are those who clearly believe that interpreters can get away with murder.
But think of the chaos, diplomatic incidents, etc. they could create if they were to get things wrong.
Yours, speechless
I used to do some interpreting too in the past, but not on a really professional level. From that little experience I know that interpreting is a job that is extremely mentally demanding, much more than translation.
What I am talking about is the fact that in interpreting you can get away with things like a missing article now and then, while in translation you can't for obvious reasons. I don't think this compares to a murder.
[Upraveno: 2012-07-09 20:54 GMT]
| | | | Kirsten Bodart
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:22
Dutch to English
+ ...
Sheila Wilson wrote:
On the other hand, my son left the UK at the tender age of 7 and at 25 he is still very much a native English speaker. He did need additional written tuition in English, but now has the IGCSE and I know for a fact that he writes as well as he speaks. However, all his schooling from age 7 was in French, his friends are almost all French, and he sees French as his 2nd native language.
So I don't think we can assume the OP has lost all ability in Romanian. In fact, we really can't judge Marelyne on anything but her English (unless there have been PMs between you in other languages), which is good but not "target language good".
Sheila
Oh, if the OP's parents gave her tution in Romanian, then obviously she is likely to be as fluent (or proficient) in Romanian as in Italian. However, it is easier to get tuition in English than in Romanian. The English are everywhere, make sure their children get plenty of English exposure, got BBC (which is pactically the best you can get anyway), make them go to school in English even, at least also socially interact with fellow native English speakers, go to play groups, etc, English is also omnipresent where Romanian (as we are talking about this) is not.
Other nationals do not always go to such lengths. For obvious or less obvious reasons.
I mean, if there are no fellow nationals, then it's simple.
Most people are also happy for their children to only speak with them and their family in their native language. They don't really think about teaching them how to spell and read it and might not even go beyond the odd book when they are children. Because things are difficult to come by or because the children themselves are not particularly interested (starting to read already takes enough effort without it being a second language requiring a different way of reading).
But no we don't really know what the OP has been exposed to, that's true.
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