| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Please get a native speaker to review your English profile Thread poster: Daina Jauntirans
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| Great document | Mar 18, 2013 |
I recently came across that document as well - it's a good one. So-called is also a common piece of translatorese from German > English.
It just goes to show you that you need the feel for the words, not just a dictionary!
| | | | Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 04:46
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Thanks a million, Lisa. I specialise in proofreading English copy written by non-native speakers, and this will be invaluable to explain that yes, they may have seen it used that way, but no, that doesn't make it correct.
| | | | | Just seen on a translator's profile | Mar 18, 2013 |
the strapline: 'Quility first'.
... does that constitute an oxymoron?
I love how that nicely encapsulates the point the OP made. I mean, even spellcheck on Word would have picked that one out.
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: At poster's request. |
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564354352 (X)
Denmark
Local time: 05:46
Danish to English
+ ...
| Expert help always appreciated | Mar 19, 2013 |
I find it amusing that this thread has been hogged almost entirely by native English-speakers. I guess we have to accept that English is 'your' language and that those of us who dare to translate into your language will always be subjected to a bit of friendly peer ridicule. I can live with that. I even humbly accept useful comments and helpful links like the one supplied by Lisa. Thanks for that - I have started spanking myself severely for committing one or two gross errors repeatedly. Shame o... See more I find it amusing that this thread has been hogged almost entirely by native English-speakers. I guess we have to accept that English is 'your' language and that those of us who dare to translate into your language will always be subjected to a bit of friendly peer ridicule. I can live with that. I even humbly accept useful comments and helpful links like the one supplied by Lisa. Thanks for that - I have started spanking myself severely for committing one or two gross errors repeatedly. Shame on me. 
Edited to correct a glaring mistake.
I should not be allowed to write in English ever again. Bad girl, bad girl!! 
[Edited at 2013-03-19 12:59 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 05:46
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| Globalization of the English language | Mar 19, 2013 |
The problem with English is that it's been globalized and "taken over" by majority of the world. Therefore, you cannot control anymore all the possible ways into which this language is straying.
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Lingua 5B wrote:
The problem with English is that it's been globalized and "taken over" by majority of the world. Therefore, you cannot control anymore all the possible ways into which this language is straying.
This is true, and whilst speaking what a native speaker would deem to be 'bad' English is forgivable, I still think that if someone chooses to write in English for the purposes of promoting their business, they could at least run the text through a spellchecker (or even better get a native speaker to review it) first (or risk being subjected to ridicule).
I don't argue that everyone all over the world should know how to spell 'quality' but I do think that if you choose that word for a strapline for your business, you should at least research it. Anything less smacks of incompetence.
| | | | Suzan Hamer
Netherlands
Local time: 05:46
English
+ ...
| No one has any desire or intention to ridicule anyone. | Mar 19, 2013 |
Gitte Hovedskov Hansen wrote: I find it amusing that this thread has been hogged almost entirely by native English-speakers. I guess we have to accept that English is 'your' language and that those of us who dare to translate into your language will always be subject to a bit of friendly peer ridicule. I can live with that. I even humbly accept useful comments and helpful links like the one supplied by Lisa. Thanks for that - I have started spanking myself severely for committing one or two gross errors repeatedly. Shame on me.
I apologize if any of my comments may have given that impression. The topic, and the point of the thread, is not that everyone should speak "perfect" English, but that if you are marketing yourself as a (native) speaker of and translator into English, you should present yourself in the best light possible. Blatant errors in your English tagline don't do that. That's why the original poster suggested having a native English speaker check the English. Just as some businesses ask native speakers to check their product names and texts for anything that would subject them or their products to ridicule.
As Marie-Helen Dubois wrote:
...if someone chooses to write in English for the purposes of promoting their business, they could at least run the text through a spellchecker (or even better get a native speaker to review it) first (or risk being subjected to ridicule).
[Edited at 2013-03-19 13:10 GMT]
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564354352 (X)
Denmark
Local time: 05:46
Danish to English
+ ...
| It's the arrogance that gets me | Mar 19, 2013 |
If this thread had simply asked: Is it worth having your foreign-language tagline checked by a native speaker of that foreign language? we could have had a nice discussion about pros and cons. Instead the tone is, in the ears (eyes!) of a non-native English-speaker more like: "For goodness sake, couldn't you at the very LEAST have had somebody proofread your profile if you must insist on writing it in a language you obviously do not master. You are an embarrassment to yourself and to the entire ... See more If this thread had simply asked: Is it worth having your foreign-language tagline checked by a native speaker of that foreign language? we could have had a nice discussion about pros and cons. Instead the tone is, in the ears (eyes!) of a non-native English-speaker more like: "For goodness sake, couldn't you at the very LEAST have had somebody proofread your profile if you must insist on writing it in a language you obviously do not master. You are an embarrassment to yourself and to the entire Proz community".
Others may not interpret the thread in this way. Maybe I am overreacting because I am getting a little bit fed up with the continual stream of hints that people who are not native English-speakers have no business translating into English. We do our best. We are not perfect. We make mistakes. And yes, native English-speakers may sometimes write better English than we do, but just get over it, we are not going to go away.
[Edited at 2013-03-19 13:50 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Giles Watson
Italy
Local time: 05:46
Italian to English
In memoriam | Remember Mrs Doasyouwouldbedoneby? | Mar 19, 2013 |
It might help if we put ourselves in the perpetrator's shoes.
Let's imagine for a moment that your tagline is dodgy and a visitor to the Proz homepage has spotted it. How would you feel if the visitor:
A) ignored it?
B) emailed privately to suggest a correction?
C) emailed a correction, appending a patronising lecture about non- native/unqualified/uncertified/non-graduate/non-specialist translators?
D) posted your dodgy tagline on an internet messag... See more It might help if we put ourselves in the perpetrator's shoes.
Let's imagine for a moment that your tagline is dodgy and a visitor to the Proz homepage has spotted it. How would you feel if the visitor:
A) ignored it?
B) emailed privately to suggest a correction?
C) emailed a correction, appending a patronising lecture about non- native/unqualified/uncertified/non-graduate/non-specialist translators?
D) posted your dodgy tagline on an internet message board popular with translators?
Personally, I'd be OK with A, grateful for B, irritated about C and deeply unamused at D. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jessica Noyes
United States
Local time: 23:46
Member
Spanish to English
+ ...
Hello, Gitte,
I also experienced the emphasis on English, and "English native speaker" as condescending, although I doubt that it was intended that way. It seems obvious to me that all of us should be seeking proofreading of *all* the materials we place on line. I am a native English speaker, and I asked another English native speaker to read through my profile for errors. (I also asked a native Spanish speaker to correct my Spanish language profile.)
| | | | | Exactly my feelings | Mar 19, 2013 |
Giles Watson wrote:
It might help if we put ourselves in the perpetrator's shoes.
Let's imagine for a moment that your tagline is dodgy and a visitor to the Proz homepage has spotted it. How would you feel if the visitor:
A) ignored it?
B) emailed privately to suggest a correction?
C) emailed a correction, appending a patronising lecture about non- native/unqualified/uncertified/non-graduate/non-specialist translators?
D) posted your dodgy tagline on an internet message board popular with translators?
Personally, I'd be OK with A, grateful for B, irritated about C and deeply unamused at D.
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Kevin Fulton
United States
Local time: 23:46
German to English
| Not arrogance, despair | Mar 19, 2013 |
Gitte Hovedskov Hansen wrote:
(snip)
Maybe I am overreacting because I am getting a little bit fed up with the continual stream of hints that people who are not native English-speakers have no business translating into English.
[Edited at 2013-03-19 13:50 GMT]
I work with several non-native speakers of English, and I envy their mastery of the language compared to my ability in German. I continuously marvel at the quality of the English produced on the Proz fora (or forums, if you will) by non-natives, many of whom do not advertise English as their target language.
However, I largely got out of the translation editing business (apart from working in select teams) because I got tired of having to correct every sentence in lengthy consumer-oriented documents*. To put it quite simply, there are a lot of people who have no business translating into a language they really haven't mastered -- and 6 years of study in school alone doesn't represent mastery. Since the English-language market is among the largest, it suffers from the greatest number of offenders, hence the overwhelming number of comments by native English speakers.
I'll go even further -- non-native speakers of English with a mastery of the language should be even **angrier** than native-language translators. They're cheapening **your** product.
*There are a lot of people who have no business translating at all, even into their own native language.
| | | | Allison Wright (X)
Portugal
Local time: 04:46
| Aware of the term, but tagline still jarred | Mar 19, 2013 |
Ty Kendall wrote: Suzan Hamer wrote: and often contact people when I notice errors in their taglines or profiles. Daina Jauntirans wrote:
...another translator stated that his "target translations are adequate" - again, that does not really inspire confidence.
In one case, I commented that I didn't think the word "adequate" in the person's tagline would make a good or the desired impression on potential clients. He replied, "Adequate means suitable for client's purpose (when translating, say, a dentist's handbook, I will try to avoid using a naval dictionary). Referring to two other terms in his tagline that I felt were less than desirable and attractive, he continued, Those are classical definitions of what the good translation should be." Apparently, in some translation textbooks and courses, the term "adequate" is used not in the sense of "barely sufficient or suitable," as most native English speakers probably interpret it when they see the term "adequate translation," but in the sense of "as much or as good as necessary for some requirement or purpose; fully sufficient, suitable." I suppose some people would think "as good as necessary" is a positive characteristic, and more than likely define "adequate" as "fully sufficient" or "good enough." I just googled "adequate translation" and find things like: "An adequate translation is a translation which realizes in the target language the textual relationships of a source text with no breach of its own [basic] linguistic system." ... "All these things should necessarily be taken into consideration in order to translate the text adequately."...And apparently there is a textbook entitled "General Principles of Adequate Translation." Moreover, how many people are intricately aware of their theories, notions and publications? This is what would be niggling away in my mind if I was considering putting the word "adequate" into my tagline. I would always be convinced it would need a footnote, which obviously can't be done with a tagline and which seems to be the case as per this discussion. 9 times out of 10 the word "adequate" would be read as per its usual, everyday meaning. And whilst it may impress someone thoroughly versed in translation theory....how many potential clients usually are [versed in translation theory]? I'd apply the same principle as that which applies to humour - if you have to explain a joke, it isn't funny...i.e. if you have to explain a tagline, then it doesn't work. [Edited at 2013-03-16 13:00 GMT]
I was aware of the term and thought it somewhat pretentious, apart from it giving the wrong impression.
The worst thing you can do with most (potential) clients is go all "academic" on them - unless of course, your clients are academics.
I would love to have a tagline that said "Translation is my life!" (Imagine a ballerina doing pas de deux across a stage exclaiming "Dancing is my life!), or one that approximated the attitude of many dogs: "Translation - my favourite thing!" But I don't. Because there are very few people who - as Ty points out - would get it.
Could I come up with a decent tagline in any of my source/non-native languages? Probably not. Would I ask a native speaker to check it? You bet I would!
.
| | | | | On the subject of arrogance... | Mar 20, 2013 |
I think it takes more than a modicum of arrogance to write promotional material for your business in a language that you clearly don't master (judging by some of the taglines given as an example) and then NOT check the spelling and/or have it checked by a native/proficient speaker. (I mean 'you' in general and not anyone in particular by the way).
My belief is that as a translator you should be diligent enough to research and check things you're not sure about.
I would always ... See more I think it takes more than a modicum of arrogance to write promotional material for your business in a language that you clearly don't master (judging by some of the taglines given as an example) and then NOT check the spelling and/or have it checked by a native/proficient speaker. (I mean 'you' in general and not anyone in particular by the way).
My belief is that as a translator you should be diligent enough to research and check things you're not sure about.
I would always get a native speaker (or proficient speaker/writer if you prefer) to have a look at text if I decided to write something important in a language that wasn't my habitual one because a) I'm not sure that I would write correctly and b) it's important to me to write correctly. Hence to me, someone who hasn't either thinks they are right and hasn't bothered checking, or doesn't care.
I don't think that it's our job to point out to colleagues when they have made a mistake because I think that if they have, this probably accurately reflects to clients the quality of their work.
After all, in what other sector would a business be kind enough to let their competitors know when they've made a mistake in their advertising material? If a car manufacturer doesn't do its research and gives a name to a car that means something silly, rude or funny in a language of a country where they want to sell it, they will get ridiculed in the press, not in a private forum.
My point is that, yes many people use English in business and not necessarily as a first language but this is a site for professional translators who are expected to be careful writers in their language/s. People are not obliged to write their profile in English as far as I know so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people who choose to, to spell correctly. However, if they don't AND the result is funny, I will laugh. ▲ Collapse
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