| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | The hard beggining. Thread poster: Vitor Visconti
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Balasubramaniam L. 
India
Local time: 13:44
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
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SITE LOCALIZER | The right reason | Jun 6, 2013 |
Marie-Helene Dubois wrote:
I'm sure that you communicate very well in English and sufficiently well for anyone to understand you but expecting to be able to translate into English when you're not a native English speaker is unrealistic.
The right reason why Vitorvisconti should not be translating into English is not that he is not a native speaker of English, but that he does not seem to have sufficient command over English to be able to do this.
Being native in a language has very little to do with translation abilities, and this is a common myth in the translation community that is hard to bury.
There are many people in this site itself who translate excellently into their non-native target languages and are at the top of the rating among peers by any yardstick.
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:14
Hebrew to English
| A myth endorsed by the ATA | Jun 6, 2013 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
Being native in a language has very little to do with translation abilities, and this is a common myth in the translation community that is hard to bury.
Which I point out to you every time you flog this dead-as-a-doornail horse.
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 13:44
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Times of India is a loner in this matter, mercifully | Jun 6, 2013 |
Gül Kaya wrote:
I doubt if a small i would catch on
None of the other large English broadsheets in India (The Hindu, The Hindustan Times, The Telegraph, etc.) have followed on the footstep of TOI, which is a small mercy.
TOI is ploughing a lone furrow in this matter.
I suspect that it is all a branding and marketing gimmick, though for the past three years TOI has been steadfast in its decision on the small i. A couple of years ago all these papers had fought a no holds barred battle to gain supremacy over the major English newspaper markets of the cities of Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore. TOI was the most innovative in this newpaper war and today it has raced ahead of its competitors in terms of circulation and ad revenue. I am sure the small i played a important part in this victory as it gave TOI a separate identity.
I looked up the sites given by Ty and it seems that the capital I is a recent phenomenon in English. It was not there in middle English.
And nor is it there in modern English (read twitter and sms English).
So TOI could very well prove prescient in this matter and English of the smartphone generation would complete the task initiated by TOI by ridding English of the capital I.
Bernard Shaw who I think left much of his immense wealth for the purpose of simplifying English spelling would be pleasantly rocking in his grave at this prospect.
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:14
Hebrew to English
| Yes, if you think 700 years ago is "recent" | Jun 6, 2013 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
I looked up the sites given by Ty and it seems that the capital I is a recent phenomenon in English. It was not there in middle English.
"The growing “I” became prevalent in the 13th and 14th centuries, with a Geoffrey Chaucer manuscript of “The Canterbury Tales”".
I'm not sure I'd call the 13th century "recent". The "I" wasn't capitalized in Middle English because the word for "I" in Middle English was "Ik/Ich" it was only just starting to be whittled down to a single letter.
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| Still a myth, though | Jun 6, 2013 |
Ty Kendall wrote: Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
Being native in a language has very little to do with translation abilities, and this is a common myth in the translation community that is hard to bury. Which I point out to you every time you flog this dead-as-a-doornail horse.
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:14
Hebrew to English
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz wrote: Ty Kendall wrote: Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
Being native in a language has very little to do with translation abilities, and this is a common myth in the translation community that is hard to bury. Which I point out to you every time you flog this dead-as-a-doornail horse.
When you're dealing with language, it's hard to deny the advantages of being a native speaker. If you want to deal with absolutes (which Bala loves) then you can call it a myth. The truth is though, that it is no more a myth than it is a golden rule.
It's merely an advantage when working with language.
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 13:44
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | That sounds far-fetched | Jun 6, 2013 |
Gül Kaya wrote:
"There's something quite pathetic about a lowercase "i" - not to mention it's barely visible (at least "a" is harder to miss)."
If that is the reason, then the digits, particularly 1, should be written in bold always or in some other more prominent way, as they too are barely visible.
No, I don't think, visibility is the reason here, it is just a quirk of the language. Most decisions taken by languages have no rational reason.
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 13:44
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | An advantage over played up is a myth! | Jun 6, 2013 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
It's merely an advantage when working with language.
An advantage over played up is a myth!
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Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:14
Hebrew to English
[quote]Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
If that is the reason, then the digits, particularly 1, should be written in bold always or in some other more prominent way, as they too are barely visible.
There'd be little reason. The digit "1" is relatively infrequent compared to the ubiquitous "I". What applies to one doesn't have to apply to the other.
No, I don't think, visibility is the reason here, it is just a quirk of the language. Most decisions taken by languages have no rational reason.
I disagree, it seems perfectly plausible to me. (They've also clearly established it through looking at the "growth" of "I" through the ages).
[Edited at 2013-06-06 14:17 GMT]
| | | | Jane Proctor (X)
France
Local time: 10:14
French to English
| good on The Times of India! | Jun 6, 2013 |
Sorry this thread is being hijacked by a vowel..
I've noticed recently that in emails and txts i've been slipping into the habit of using "i"... and i make no apologies for rather liking it. It is now even slipping into my Proz forum comments, horror of horrors. IMO this is not a native versus non-native issue (assuming the non-native speaker hasn't left other clues, and note that in contractions, the spacing - or rather lack of - is important!)
"I" was all well and go... See more Sorry this thread is being hijacked by a vowel..
I've noticed recently that in emails and txts i've been slipping into the habit of using "i"... and i make no apologies for rather liking it. It is now even slipping into my Proz forum comments, horror of horrors. IMO this is not a native versus non-native issue (assuming the non-native speaker hasn't left other clues, and note that in contractions, the spacing - or rather lack of - is important!)
"I" was all well and good before keyboards took over, but "i" makes so much more sense these days.... except now tablets are taking over and keyboard layout is changing
Language is constantly evolving and now more than ever. My bet is that with so many non-English speakers conversing and writing in English, and "mistakes" proliferating and reproducing themselves over the internet, the norms of the language will be changed dramatically over the next 20 years. Good English may well become Old-Fashioned. Eek.
And the non-natives will have the last laugh and the rest of us will be out of a job!
[Edited at 2013-06-06 14:45 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | LEXpert
United States
Local time: 03:14
Member (2008)
Croatian to English
+ ...
| Won't be sorry to see it go... | Jun 6, 2013 |
I often write e-mails and other communications in my second language, where the lower case "i" is its own word (the conjunction 'and'), and Microsoft is constantly 'correcting' it! It's really annoying!
First and last OT post on this from me, I promise.
| | | | Vitor Visconti
Brazil
Local time: 05:14
English to Portuguese
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TOPIC STARTER | Thanks a lot! | Jun 6, 2013 |
Thank you for the hints, comments and criticisms!
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| There's no disagreement between us then | Jun 6, 2013 |
Ty Kendall wrote: Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz wrote: Ty Kendall wrote: Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
Being native in a language has very little to do with translation abilities, and this is a common myth in the translation community that is hard to bury. Which I point out to you every time you flog this dead-as-a-doornail horse. When you're dealing with language, it's hard to deny the advantages of being a native speaker. If you want to deal with absolutes (which Bala loves) then you can call it a myth. The truth is though, that it is no more a myth than it is a golden rule. It's merely an advantage when working with language.
Ty, I by no deny the advantages of being a native speaker of the target language. I simply insist it's merely an advantage, just like you say in the end. Unfortunately, the modern 'industry' has made it somewhat of a don't-have-to-use-my-brain-any-more item on a checklist, while utterly neglecting the advantages native speakers of the source language have in comprehension and precision.
[Edited at 2013-06-06 17:16 GMT]
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The Times of India thing sounds like a hoax (do they have April Fool's Day in India?) Their website uses capital I.
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 13:44
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Small i only for the pronoun I | Jun 7, 2013 |
philgoddard wrote:
The Times of India thing sounds like a hoax (do they have April Fool's Day in India?) Their website uses capital I.
I hope you know what a pronoun is.
TOI uses the small i for the pronoun I not anywhere else. Did you read my first post in which I have explained why they took this decision?
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