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EU residence permits to be abolished in Germany
Thread poster: RobinB
RobinB  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:25
German to English
Oct 6, 2004

First off, many thanks to Robin Stocks for mentioning this on his excellent blog at http://www.words-worth.de/robin/

From 1 January 2005, EU citizens moving to or already residing in Germany will no longer require a residence permit (Aufenthaltserlaubnis). This means that EU citizens living in Germany who are in possession of a renewable residence permit will no longer have to renew it.

There was a thread on the topic of moving to Germany a couple of months ago, and a posting (Gillian?) about the horrors of obtaining a residence permit. The nightmare is over!

The only thing that EU citizens will need to comply with from 2005 onwards is the standard registration (applicable to all German residents) with the local Einwohnermeldeamt, which will then issue a residence certificate on the basis of the passport/ID card and the information in the normal registration form.

Of course, this doesn't affect the obligation to register with the tax office if you're going to be self-employed.

Robin


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Mandy Williams  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:25
German to English
Hurray!! Oct 6, 2004

Personally, I can't understand why we can't just get an ID card like the Germans have but at least this means less hassle.
Regards from Cologne,
MW


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Kit Cree  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:25
Member (2003)
French to English
+ ...
already happening in spain Oct 6, 2004

I tried to renew my resident's permit in Spain last year and was told that my UK pasport was enough. Obviously I'm still asked for my Spanish ID no everywhere so for new residents maybe it's still worth getting into the 'system'

good luck to all those still waiting in queues...


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RobinB  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:25
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
ID cards.... Oct 6, 2004

MW wrote:

Personally, I can't understand why we can't just get an ID card like the Germans have but at least this means less hassle.
Regards from Cologne,
MW


Personally, I have a (probably inbred) aversion to ID cards, but I suppose it would avoid having to carry passports around all the time. According to the Zuwanderungsgesetz, specifically the Gesetz über die allgemeine Freizügigkeit von Unionsbürgern (which is Article 2 of the Zuwanderungsgesetz - a typical example of nested German legislation), we're still supposed to carry our passports or national ID cards with us at all times.

But we don't really carry our passports around with us all the time, do we?

Her: Could you just nip down to the baker and pick up some Brötchen?
Him: I would if I could, but I seem to have mislaid my passport..

Her: Why don't you ever put out the bins?
Him: Well, if you hadn't microwaved my passport..

Actually, we don't need machine-readable passports. We need machine-*washable* passports

Robin


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Mandy Williams  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:25
German to English
Washing my hair Oct 6, 2004

Robin - well at least it's a variation on the old "washing my hair" excuse. "Can't come out, can't find my passport".
But seriously, that's my point, who wants to take their passport with them everywhere they go?
Anyway, don't think we can do anything about it so I'm just going to have another coffee and get on with my thrilling translation...
MW


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LindaMcM  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:25
Swedish to German
+ ...
... Oct 6, 2004

I really hope this information will reach my Ausländeramt, too (as they have been "a bit" ignorant and uninformed regarding all these things in the past)!

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xxxMarc P  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:25
German to English
+ ...
EU residence permits to be abolished in Germany Oct 6, 2004

Good news Robin, thanks for posting that.

Mind you, I still don't know why you haven't applied for German citizenship.


According to the Zuwanderungsgesetz, specifically the Gesetz über die allgemeine Freizügigkeit von Unionsbürgern (which is Article 2 of the Zuwanderungsgesetz - a typical example of nested German legislation), we're still supposed to carry our passports or national ID cards with us at all times.


Does this mean that you do have to carry the British ID card you don't have, but I don't have to carry the German one that I do have?

Actually, we don't need machine-readable passports. We need machine-*washable* passports


You're telling me. I left my wallet and a bottle of water with the cap not screwed on properly in a daysack recently. The ID card IS machine-washable, but my old pink driving licence and the car registration papers are not...

Marc


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xxxCMJ_Trans
Local time: 14:25
French to English
+ ...
France Oct 6, 2004

Since the beginning of this year "cartes de séjour" have no longer been required in France. It eases the administration and the costs but, in fact, I had the misfortune to have a card that expired on 1 February. This leaves me with nothing but a passsport (that I DO always carry on me in my wallet) and an expired card. Thank God that most stores take credit cards and cheques are almost a thing of the past..... Somewhere, if anyone is interested, I have a website address where you can print out the official instructions abolishing the Carte de Séjour for EU nationals. This could come in useful in relations with oficialdom since they often don't seem to know what's going on on their own doorstep!

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RobinB  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:25
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Beamtenignoranz Oct 6, 2004

LiMaBi wrote:

I really hope this information will reach my Ausländeramt, too (as they have been "a bit" ignorant and uninformed regarding all these things in the past)!


What a diplomatic way to put it! I suggest you just print out the entire Zuwanderungsgesetz and throw it at them. Check out:

http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/

Robin


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RobinB  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:25
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Why on earth? Oct 6, 2004

MarcPrior wrote:

Good news Robin, thanks for posting that.

Mind you, I still don't know why you haven't applied for German citizenship.

Does this mean that you do have to carry the British ID card you don't have, but I don't have to carry the German one that I do have?


should I apply for German citizenship, Marc? The only real benefit would be eligibility to vote in national elections ("but the government always gets in anyway"). On the downside, I'd be eligible for jury service. And I'd probably be forced by law to use the Neue Rechtschreibung, or something like that

To be perfectly honest, being required to carry a passport with me is not a good enough reason to take out German citizenship (while retaining British citizenship, of course). I just don't see the point...

You're telling me. I left my wallet and a bottle of water with the cap not screwed on properly in a daysack recently. The ID card IS machine-washable, but my old pink driving licence and the car registration papers are not...


Now that the rush appears to be over, maybe it's time to exchange our old pink driving licence for one of these new plastic cards (when I say "pink", I mean a sort of grubby, dirty pink verging on the brown, tattered and torn, looks like the mice have been at it).

Robin


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Parrot  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 14:25
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
I have been informed that it depends where in Spain Oct 6, 2004

Kit Cree wrote:

I tried to renew my resident's permit in Spain last year and was told that my UK pasport was enough. Obviously I'm still asked for my Spanish ID no everywhere so for new residents maybe it's still worth getting into the 'system'

good luck to all those still waiting in queues...


and that some provincial areas still do not know this is the case, or specifically how the law is to apply.

To help ProZians who are in this situation, this is the verbatim text of the pertinent law on residence that came into force in February 2003 in Spain.


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Sarah Downing  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:25
German to English
+ ...
Hip Hip Hooray! Oct 6, 2004

It's about bloody time - I mean it's not exactly moral-boosting having to obtain a permit to live in a country when you know that you're perfectly entitled to live here anyway and the name of the department that issues these permits "Aliens' Department" - It says a lot doesn't it - Makes me think of Sting's song "English Man in New York" - ("I'm a legal alien").

And yes, I fully agree on passports - I certainly wouldn't want to carry mine around and Germans aren't expected to carry theirs around either, but then that's why they've got an extra ID card ...

ATB,

Sarah


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LindaMcM  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:25
Swedish to German
+ ...
Not so diplomatic.... Oct 6, 2004

RobinB wrote:

LiMaBi wrote:

I really hope this information will reach my Ausländeramt, too (as they have been "a bit" ignorant and uninformed regarding all these things in the past)!


What a diplomatic way to put it! I suggest you just print out the entire Zuwanderungsgesetz and throw it at them. Check out:

http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/

Robin



You are right, VERY diplomatic, I know.
When I think of how much time, money and how many nerves I had to invest because of these uninterested and ignorant idiots (sorry for the not sooo diplomatic words...) I will do as you suggested - and walk up there with a big smile on my face!

And now I'll go and get myself a bottle of sparkling wine, take a break and dance through the house singing "hip hip hooray - you f*&% idiots will never bother me again"!

I hope I didn't offend anyone by not being diplomatic but I just feel SO "free"

Linda


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xxxMarc P  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:25
German to English
+ ...
Why on earth Oct 6, 2004

[quote]RobinB wrote:

should I apply for German citizenship, Marc? [quote]

Yes, I think that's what you said last time I asked you.

Now that the rush appears to be over, maybe it's time to exchange our old pink driving licence for one of these new plastic cards


I've been meaning to do that for a while. I presume that you once traded a British licence for a German one, like I did. Did the local department make some record at the time of how long you had held a British licence?

Marc


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RobinB  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:25
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Driving licences Oct 6, 2004

MarcPrior wrote:

I've been meaning to do that for a while. I presume that you once traded a British licence for a German one, like I did. Did the local department make some record at the time of how long you had held a British licence?

Marc


Indeed I did, back in 1984. I know they kept some sort of record, but I don't know what. I rather think they kept the UK driving licence (issued 1974) on file. Or maybe they returned it to DVLC, I don't know. Never been a problem for insurance, I just tell 'em I passed my test back in 1974 and they've never questioned it.

Robin


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