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Revision of the Greek localized version
Thread poster: Soledad Azcona

Soledad Azcona  Identity Verified
Brazil
English to Spanish
+ ...
Feb 29, 2008

Dear all,

Out of the results of the survey on the Greek localized version a new proofreading of the version will be performed by a a group of three volunteers and the feedback from the community.

Members of the Greek community that are interested in giving feedback will have the chance to do so at a private forum that we created for that purpose. Those interested in participating please let me know at soledad at proz dot com
During this proofreading phase the team will also be asking not for points KudoZ questions for specific terms.

Also, to increase possibilities for members using localized versions, all users have now the possibility to set the languages in which their profiles will be shown to non-logged in visitors.
The option is in each member profile, under the "Settings" tab, "Search engine settings". You can select the language and choose the "Force visitors to see my profile in this language" option. Profiles will only be seen in a language other than the one the user has selected in the very exceptional case of when a logged-in user enters a profile using an external link of a localized ProZ.com version. In all other cases, logged-in users will see the profile in the language they are using on the site.

Thanks for your help!

Best regards,

Soledad


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Soledad Azcona  Identity Verified
Brazil
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Update on Greek version proofreading Apr 7, 2008

Dear members,

Just an update on the Greek site localization: as a further assurance of the quality of the version, after an internal revision by the Localization Team, it was decided to perform an additional proofreading by a company. Partnertrans GmbH has already begun the process of proofreading the site version. Thanks to all for your support of the site.

Best regards,

Soledad


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Valentini Mellas  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 02:20
English to Greek
+ ...
Clarification on the revision stage Apr 7, 2008

Hello everyone,

I am afraid Soledad did not phrase correctly what has been decided. Let me clarify:

The people that comprised the Greek revision (and proofreading) team approached Soledad and we let her know that due to professional obligations we would not be able to complete the project. We thought that it would be fair to the community if we let the project be assigned to someone else from within the community.

So, to clarify,this is not goint to be an "additional" review done by the mentioned agency i.e. the site will not be reviewed twice. The agency Soledad mentions in her message will perform the reviewing of the Greek version. Should you have questions about their processes and/or anything else that pertains to this project, feel free to contact Soledad and/or the agency.

I want to personally thank the other two core members of the reviewing team and Ι hope that our workload lightens up at some point for some much needed vacation

Rgds
Valentini Mellas


[Edited at 2008-04-08 10:12]


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Soledad Azcona  Identity Verified
Brazil
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Revision of the version Apr 7, 2008

Valentini Mellas wrote:

Hello everyone,

I am afraid Soledad did not phrase correctly what has been decided. Let me clarify:

The people that comprised the Greek proofreading team approached Soledad and we let her know that due to professional obligations we would not be able to complete the proofreading project. We thought that it would be fair to the community if we let the project be assigned to someone else from within the community.


Thanks for the clarification. I don't think my phrasing was wrong. As far as I know the Localization Team DID perform an internal revision of the localized version. Am I wrong?

Regards,
Soledad


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Valentini Mellas  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 02:20
English to Greek
+ ...
Revision of the version Apr 7, 2008

SoleProz wrote:

Thanks for the clarification. I don't think my phrasing was wrong. As far as I know the Localization Team DID perform an internal revision of the localized version. Am I wrong?

Regards,
Soledad


Thank you for giving me this chance to further clarify how the project had progressed so far Soledad!

The Greek translation team submitted the initial translations. A rudimentary proofreading was done at that point in time. After that point we had plans to perform more of a QA when the localization interface could allow us global search and replace. Meanwhile there were discussions about the terms used in the Greek version of this site. It was at this stage, and following the survey you were kind enough to put for us on ProZ's main page, that we decided to proceed to a review/revision stage of the site. This was not a second review of the site. It was the first one.

All the best to the new team. I am sure the agency will continue the discussion with the community to ensure that the goals expressed by the community are met.

Rgds
Valentini


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Soledad Azcona  Identity Verified
Brazil
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Greek version revised Apr 21, 2008

Dear all,

The final revision of the Greek version by Partnertrans GmbH has been completed and deployed online. Please convey to Partnertrans GmbH any feedback you may have about this localization.

Kind regards,

Soledad


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Elena Petelos  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:20
Member (2004)
English to Greek
+ ...
Amazing! Apr 21, 2008

SoleProz wrote:

Dear all,

The final revision of the Greek version by Partnertrans GmbH has been completed and deployed online. Please convey to Partnertrans GmbH any feedback you may have about this localization.

Kind regards,

Soledad





Dear Soledad,


thank you for letting us know.


I have looked at the very first page and I see the following interesting things:

freelance translators>ελεύθεροι μεταφραστές.

With four hits in google.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGLJ_enGR210GR210&q="ελεύθεροι%20μεταφραστές


Two are from Proz, but I am sure time will fix that....
Need I say more?
Indeed, need I check the translation at all?

I, also, see that Proz.com is an "ηγετικός ιστότοπος" (leading site). Amazing stuff!

Two results in google: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=el&rlz=1T4GGLJ_enGR210GR210&q="ηγετικός%20ιστότοπος&meta=

Both from Proz.com.

Further down. They even missed the poor spaces:

"Το δίκτυοKudoZ παρέχει ένα πλαίσιο..."

Obviously, the agency did not even bother to run a spell checker through the text.


We continue to Law>Νόμος (instead of Δίκαιο) and Medical (Instruments)>Ιατρική: Όργανα (lots of organs all around...), Biotech(nology) turned into... Bio...technique(>Βιο-τεχνική!!!!), etc, etc, etc.

I will not continue commenting because it is absolutely pointless.

I have avoided getting involved in previous debates on this topic -in our forum-
but it is with great sadness, that I see almost none of all the comments previously made was taken into consideration.

I respect the work done by our colleagues, but these are serious errors,
and it is impossible for me to believe the editing/review process, which was outsourced to the agency you mention, was performed by anything but amateurs.

Kind regards


El.


Addendum:

In the message regarding the localization (as to what shoud one do... should one find an error....):
Εάν βρείτε σφάλμα στη μετάφραση οποιουδήποτε τμήματος του ιστοτόπου που έχει ήδη τοπικοποιθεί, παρακαλούμε όπως ειδοποιήσετε έναν από τους γλωσσικούς συντονιστές που προαναφέρονται.

There's a typo. It would be nice to have at least this portion corrected... (despite the fact it suffers stylistically as well. For example, if such as an outaded phrase is to be used (i.e. όπως [+]) then we need to have "ειδοποιήσατε".)



[Edited at 2008-04-22 06:47]


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Danae Ferri  Identity Verified
Norway
Local time: 01:20
Norwegian to Greek
+ ...
Are you kidding? Apr 22, 2008

I only read the comments of Elena and had a quick look at the first page, where you can still find διερμηνεία (interpreting) misspelled as διερμηνία. Need more?

What I see is that now there is none to assume the responsibility but an un-personal thing -an agency- instead of our colleagues.

I am sorry for being skeptical, but I don't believe what was mentioned about the reasons for the replacement of the last editing team by an agency. And how could this agency finish the editing job -which is not easy at all- so quickly.

I feel personally offended by the way the whole matter has been dealt with and by the lack of transparency concerning it.

Danae Ferri


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Valentini Mellas  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 02:20
English to Greek
+ ...
Revision of the Greek localized version - Reply to community reaction Apr 24, 2008

Hello everyone,

Let me start this reply by stressing that no person from the original teams participating in the translation and/or review of the site is happy with the way things are handled currently. After the community's request, we did form a task force of three people to conduct the term review and discussion with the community so we would end up with a Greek version that everyone could live with and like.

We decided to handle the review of the site in phases; for those who were not involved in the original effort for translation let me say that the site is divided in phases i.e. the pages are ranked per "importance" and "visibility". So, in order to make everyone's life easier, we decided to follow this model and that is why we started placing KudoZ questions with terms that everyone could find in the main pages of this site. I can safely say that all members involved in the review as well as people from the community were really happy that the discussion was indeed taking place and we were exchanging ideas and coming to a mutual agreement on term usage.

About the time that the community had really warmed up and was participating en masse, we approached Soledad and told her that the delivery of Phase I files would "slip" by a week because we wanted to give more time to this discussion (and also because we had quite heavy workload). Let me add that before we started the review I had sent out to Soledad a tentative delivery schedule, which files were assigned to whom - along with corresponding wordcounts - so that she would also be informed and know that we all shared and shared alike the burden of reviewing.

At that point in time Soledad thought it was wise to summarily dismiss our efforts and presented us with an already established situation where an agency had stepped in (while we were all discussing terms) and expressed an offer to conduct the review in its entirety. No matter how many times we told her to reconsider, and no matter how many times we showed that all the community was participating and that taking the project away and assigning it to an agency would not make the problems disappear, she was firm on her decision. We, as volunteers, cannot force her to continue with our efforts. On the other hand, we, as volunteers, were never offered a real reason why she was so ardent in this change of course.

So, in conclusion, phase I of the files was never delivered to Soledad. We simply refused to be accessories to such an underhanded move. All of ProZ was reviewed by this agency and no member of either the translation team or the review team can be held accountable for this result, so please refrain from emailing any of them. In passing let me add that the other two reviewers were never added to the team (not even now; but I see the agency made it from day one to the list).

If anyone has questions or doubts, please feel free to post them here. The translation team and the core reviewing team are not hiding; we never were. I will be available to answer any questions as we have always kept all processes and discussions public and completely transparent.

I wish all of you a restful break from work for the celebration of Easter,


Valentini Mellas

PS Due to Easter break I will not be able to read any comments or questions until Tuesday April 29th.

[Edited at 2008-04-24 20:55]


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Nadia-Anastasia Fahmi  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 02:20
English to Greek
+ ...
:-( Apr 28, 2008

To say the least, the Greek site is now worse than before.

The arbitrary decision to assign the revision (???) to an agency and a German one at that (why not a Greek agency) was a sad decision.

Now, we are sure we will not be using ProZ in Greek and that is a disappointing result!!

What a waste of time and efforts on the part of all of us who were looking forward to a professional-level localisation which the Greek revision team could very well deliver (even later than anticipated)...


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Costas Zannis
Local time: 02:20
English to Greek
+ ...
Οι Γερμανοί ξανάρχονται... :))) Jun 5, 2008

Μας πήραν το αεροδρόμιο, μας παίρνουν τον ΟΤΕ, κάνουν και localization στα Ελληνικά...

Τό 'λεγε εκείνος ο εκδότης σύμπασας της αρχαίας γραμματολογίας: "Μας πήραν τα μάρμαρα, μη μας πάρουν και τα κείμενα". Να τώρα που μας πήραν τη γλώσσα ολάκερη.

Ευτυχώς προλάβαμε να σώσουμε τη "feta cheese" κι έτσι διατήρησε η choriatiki σάλαντ τη γεύση της.

Εμένα όμως άλλο με απασχολεί: Αφού δεν έχουμε μάθει οι Έλληνες ότι η "καταχώριση" γράφεται με "ι" και το ρήμα είναι "καταχωρίζω" και όχι "καταχωρώ". ας το μάθουν οι Γερμανοί μεταφραστές και πάψουμε να βλέπουμε τα φρικαλέα "καταχώρηση", "καταχωρήσεις" κλπ.

(Τουλάχιστον να επέστρεφαν οι Άγγλοι τα μάρμαρα και χαλάλι η γλώσσα στους Γερμανούς.)

Αλήθεια, από σοβαρότητα πώς πάμε; Όχι ότι ήταν ποτέ το φόρτε μας.

LOL LOL LOL ........ Me ta xaliά mas


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Costas Zannis
Local time: 02:20
English to Greek
+ ...
LOL συνέχεια (και συνεχώς) Jun 5, 2008

Στέλνοντας το προηγούμενο σχόλιο μου προέκυψε το ακόλουθο μήνυμα:

"Το μήνυμά σας αποθηκεύτηκε στη βάση δεδομένων.
Σημείωση: Θα γίνει αναθεώρηση του μηνύματός σας από έναν συντονιστή προτού γίνει ορατό δημόσια"."

Αγαπητό Προζ, λοκαλάιζερ ή όποιος είσαι τελοσπάντων κι απ' οπουδήποτε έλκει την καταγωγή η σκούφια σου, το μήνυμά μου μόνο ΕΓΩ μπορώ να το "αναθεωρήσω". Ο "συντονιστής" μπορεί να το "θεωρήσει", να το "επιθεωρήσει" να το "εξετάσει", να το "διαβάσει" ή να το κάνει ό,τι θέλει, εκτός απ' το να το "αναθεωρήσει".

Επί πλέον ο "moderator", επί του προκειμένου δεν είναι "συντονιστής", είναι "επόπτης" "επιτηρητής" άντε και "μεσολαβητής". Και το "προτού γίνει ορατό δημόσια" θα ήταν καλύτερα να γινόταν "πριν δημοσιευτεί"... "προτού" μας πάρουν με τις ντομάτες

"Πρόζακ"... γρήγορα...


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Maria Karra  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:20
Member (2000)
Greek to English
+ ...
λάθη Jun 5, 2008

Costas Zannis wrote:
Εμένα όμως άλλο με απασχολεί: Αφού δεν έχουμε μάθει οι Έλληνες ότι η "καταχώριση" γράφεται με "ι" και το ρήμα είναι "καταχωρίζω" και όχι "καταχωρώ". ας το μάθουν οι Γερμανοί μεταφραστές και πάψουμε να βλέπουμε τα φρικαλέα "καταχώρηση", "καταχωρήσεις" κλπ.


Τα συγκεκριμένα δε είναι φρικαλέα. Και οι δύο λέξεις ισχύουν. Υπάρχει το καταχωρώ και το καταχωρίζω. Η καταχώριση γράφεται και με η χωρίς να αλλάζει το νόημα.
http://www.komvos.edu.gr/dictionaries/dictonline/DictOnLineTri.htm

Τα φρικαλέα δεν έχουν διορθωθεί απ' ό,τι βλέπω. Απορώ γιατί. Μάλιστα μερικά τα επισημάναμε και στο φόρουμ. Προφανώς δεν διάβασαν τα παράπονα στο φόρουμ οι Γερμανοί συνάδελφοι. Εκείνη η "θέση" ρε παιδιά, έλεος! Ο "νόμος" παραμένει "νόμος" (σε λίγο θα διαβάσουμε και "ορολογία του νόμου"). Πήρατε χαμπάρι εσείς καμιά διόρθωση; Δεν μπορεί να μην έγιναν αλλαγές, φαντάζομαι ότι έγιναν. Εγώ όμως δεν τις βλέπω. Αυτά που βλέπω και που κάνουν μπαμ δεν έχουν αλλάξει. Αααχχχχ και βαχ...

[Έγινε επεξεργασία στις 2008-06-05 16:49]

Πάτησα Edit και βλέπω ότι τώρα στο μήνυμά μου γράφει "Έγινε επεξεργασία" αντί "πέρασε επιμέλεια" που έλεγε αρχικά. Άρα έγιναν αλλαγές. Απλώς δεν αίναι αρκετές. Ξανά αχχχχ

[Έγινε επεξεργασία στις 2008-06-05 16:53]


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Elena Petelos  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:20
Member (2004)
English to Greek
+ ...
:) Jun 5, 2008

Maria Karra wrote:


Τα φρικαλέα δεν έχουν διορθωθεί απ' ό,τι βλέπω. Απορώ γιατί. Μάλιστα μερικά τα επισημάναμε και στο φόρουμ. Προφανώς δεν διάβασαν τα παράπονα στο φόρουμ οι Γερμανοί συνάδελφοι. Εκείνη η "θέση" ρε παιδιά, έλεος! Ο "νόμος" παραμένει "νόμος" (σε λίγο θα διαβάσουμε και "ορολογία του νόμου"). Πήρατε χαμπάρι εσείς καμιά διόρθωση; Δεν μπορεί να μην έγιναν αλλαγές, φαντάζομαι ότι έγιναν. Εγώ όμως δεν τις βλέπω. Αυτά που βλέπω και που κάνουν μπαμ δεν έχουν αλλάξει. Αααχχχχ και βαχ...




Όχι δεν έχουν διορθωθεί. Αλλά δεν υπάρχει και κανένα ουσιαστικό ενδιαφέρον να διορθωθούν.

Btw: Κώστα, εδώ το ορθογραφικό πάει σύννεφο, σε πήρε ο πόνος -αν κι έχεις δίκιο γιατί άλλη η έννοια του καταχωρώ και άλλη του καταχωρίζω- για την «καταχώριση»;


καταχωρώ [kataxoró] -ούμαι P10.9 : καταχωρίζω. [λόγ. < ελνστ. καταχωρῶ `υποχωρώ σε αίτημα΄, με σφαλερή ταύτιση προς το καταχωρίζω από το συνοπτ. θ. καταχωρισ-]


καταχωρίζω [kataxorízo] -ομαι P2.1 : 1. γράφω κτ. σε ορισμένη σειρά και θέ ση, σε ειδικό βιβλίο, κατάλογο κτλ., ή το κρατώ στη μνήμη ηλεκτρονικού υπολογιστή: Oι γάμοι / οι θάνατοι καταχωρίζονται στα οικεία βιβλία του ληξιαρχείου. O αρμόδιος υπάλληλος καταχώρισε την αίτηση με αριθμό πρωτοκόλλου τριάντα. Tα έσοδα και οι δαπάνες είναι καταχωρισμένα σε λογιστικά βιβλία. || Aυτό το γεγονός θα καταχωριστεί στις δέλτους της ιστορίας, θα καταγραφεί. 2. δημοσιεύω κτ. σε εφημερίδα ή σε περιοδικό, κυρίως για πληρωμένη δημοσίευση μικρής αγγελίας, διαφήμισης, δήλωσης κτλ. [λόγ. < ελνστ. καταχωρίζω `εγγράφω σε κατάλογο΄, αρχ. σημ.: `βάζω στη θέση του΄ (]διαφ. το ελνστ. καταχωρῶ `υποχωρώ)]

(ΛΚΝ)







[Edited at 2008-06-05 16:45]


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Valentini Mellas  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 02:20
English to Greek
+ ...
Revision of the Greek localized version Jun 5, 2008

I will keep my reply in English since this thread will be read by Maggie O' Hara who is the new person responsible for the localization of ProZ and/or Patrick, both of whom do not speak Greek.

I will only say this: I submitted a support ticket for this matter along with replies in the private localization forum. As I said in my previous posting, please refrain from contacting the Greek localization team as we are not longer the "owners" of the files and have no idea - nor were we consulted - about the changes. I will lend my voice to yours with regards to the fact that the agency did not consult this forum first. I have included them in every communication I send to ProZ but I have not received a reply.

Maggie is new to this process and is now catching up. I hope that her and Patrick can contact us and help us get back on track, as we were before Soledad's decision.

Rgds
Valentini Mellas


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