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Italian working law
Thread poster: Jeannie Graham

Jeannie Graham  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:15
German to English
+ ...
Aug 3, 2005

My 22 year old daughter has just been offered a teaching job in Italy. A Contratto Progetto.

I am a bit concerned because the manager of the school has told her that although she has a contract to teach a 40 hour week there will be no entitlement to holidays or sick pay! Is this really legal in Italy. It is bad enough she is expected to turn up a couple of weeks early for unpaid training, but this has got my warning bells ringing.

I know this is not a translation topic, but don't know who else to ask expect my language colleages here at proz.com.
Any advice is welcomed


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Federica D'Alessio
Italy
Local time: 15:15
Member (2005)
English to Italian
+ ...
Dear Kalimeh.... Aug 3, 2005

kalimeh wrote:

the manager of the school has told her that although she has a contract to teach a 40 hour week there will be no entitlement to holidays or sick pay! Is this really legal in Italy.


....I hope you don't mind if I confess that your post made me smile, because you know...

....this is not only legal...this is the mainstream!!!!

My only advice is...if it's not that your daughter is really, really in love with someone or something in Italy....stay away from here, because finding a job is really dramatic for young people. We're just exploited from companies and institutions, and don't have any kind of perspective for a better future.

Sorry for being so rude (also for my childish English), but I think it's better she prepares herself to all the difficulties she's going to meet.

Good luck,

Federica


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Michael Deliso  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:15
Italian to English
+ ...
check better all the by-laws Aug 3, 2005

kalimeh wrote:

My 22 year old daughter has just been offered a teaching job in Italy. A Contratto Progetto.

I am a bit concerned because the manager of the school has told her that although she has a contract to teach a 40 hour week there will be no entitlement to holidays or sick pay! Is this really legal in Italy. It is bad enough she is expected to turn up a couple of weeks early for unpaid training, but this has got my warning bells ringing.

I know this is not a translation topic, but don't know who else to ask expect my language colleages here at proz.com.
Any advice is welcomed


If this is with a private school then it must be seasonal and not open ended term type of contract, whereby there are no sick pays or any other benefits.. I would check it better. (no offenses to Italians) but I have taught in private schools and some owners can be very
shrewd.
my two cents..


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Laura Gentili  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 15:15
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
No sick pay or paid holidays for a "Contratto a Progetto" Aug 3, 2005

Hi,
I just wanted to confirm that the "Contratto a Progetto" does not include any sick pay or paid holidays.
In other words, the school manager is just applying the law. This law is a sort of workaround for companies which do not want to pay all the social benefits.
HTH,
Laura


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Alessandro Cattelan
Italy
Local time: 15:15
English to Italian
+ ...
don't come to italy Aug 4, 2005

Laura Gentili wrote:
This law is a sort of workaround for companies which do not want to pay all the social benefits.


Exactly.

And, to quote Federica, don't come to Italy unless you really have to...

I can not think of ONE good reason to come and live in Italy. This country is just falling apart.

If you are a tourist OK, but if your daughter is planning to move here, she'd better think twice and maybe compare the wages with the cost of living, the rent you pay for a small flat, the money you waste on petrol, insurance, telecommunications...

Remember Argentina?
Italy is not far away from what Argentina was just before the crisis.

If you can read Italian:
http://www.blogoltre.it/blog/archives/000348.html
Or just read the newspapers these days.

"Il bel paese"... chissà dov'è?

.a.


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theDsaint
French to Italian
+ ...
Contratto a progetto Aug 4, 2005

Italian businesses and institution call it "flexibility", emploees call it "lack of basic rights". Tell you daughter to think carefully about it before accepting.

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Giuseppina Gatta, MA (Hons)
Member (2005)
English to Italian
+ ...
I agree, don't come to Italy Aug 4, 2005

Alessandro Cattelan wrote:



And, to quote Federica, don't come to Italy unless you really have to...

I can not think of ONE good reason to come and live in Italy. This country is just falling apart.


I always say the same to all those who fancy to come to Italy. Forget it, find a better place, I'm sure there are some...
And I force myself to stop here, otherwise could write really nasty things about my country...
Best wishes
Giusi

[Edited at 2005-08-04 19:20]

[Edited at 2005-08-05 07:36]


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Valentina Pecchiar  Identity Verified
Italy
Member
English to Italian
+ ...
Disagree with my esteemed colleagues Aug 4, 2005

I think it'd be too bad if your daughter missed this opportunity.

Mind you, I can only confirm what the colleagues have said about the current Italian situation (born and raised on the Adriatic shore, I set sail 3.5 yrs ago and haven't turned back yet). But living in Italy and having an "Italian experience" is not necessarily the same.

Of course, she'll have to endure all the difficulties and issues Italians go through (and isn't that the very purpose of an experience abroad?), "contratto a progetto" and all its debasing nevertherless "legal" measures included, but it seems a temporary appointment, given the nature of the contract, isn't it? It's not like signing a life-time agreement: "Go to Italy and be damned with each and every Italian"

She's in her 20s, probably the best age to travel around and see the world with an open and mature mind, without the many constraints she may have later on (from kids to mortgages to pay). She gets to see Italy and find out for herself what it is like, wheteher it's like the people at her mom's "workplace" say or whether it's a place worth knowing a little bit more about, maybe to understand it maybe to like it or to hate it - or just to check out whether the good ol' sterotypes are "paparazzi concoctions" or still kicking and alive ("spaghetti, pizza & mandolino", "Mmmh Italy is so full of art and beauty", "Oh, Italian men are the most romantic hunks on Earth" etc.). I am not saying they are (still looking for this most romantic guy myself), but why not giving Italy a try?

Best luck to your daughter, "in bocca al lupo".


"Smile, without a reason why
Love, as if you were a child,
Smile, no matter what they tell you
Don't listen to a word they say
Cause life is beautiful that way."
-- Life is beautiful (soundtrack)


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Federica D'Alessio
Italy
Local time: 15:15
Member (2005)
English to Italian
+ ...
Muja, you're right.... Aug 4, 2005

...the only and main thing I'd add is that it's better she prepares herself. Because there's a huge difference between the so called (by me :S) "Italian dream", and what really our country is. Italy is a mithology, more than a real place. And it is very easy you get disappointed when realizing what the truth is really like. That's why I think the greater your reasons to go are, the best you'll face all difficulties.

But maybe, as you said, it is worth to come here and have an "Italian experience", though it will be hard to live in dignity with a "contratto a progetto", especially if she's going to stay in a city such as Roma or Milano.


Anyway...I agree with you... please let me join you in a huge

In bocca al lupo!


Federica

[Edited at 2005-08-04 23:04]

[Edited at 2005-08-04 23:05]


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Daniela Tosi
Germany
Local time: 15:15
Member (2004)
English to Italian
+ ...
I definitely agree with Muja Aug 5, 2005

My view is not so pessimistic and I would say that for your daughter to try and live for a period of time in Italy won't be bad at all.
An experience abroad teaches you always something important no matter where.
About the "contratto a progetto": as it is meant only for a short period of time, your daughter can perhaps look around and see if something better turns up. Some years ago I taught Italian in Germany, I was paid on an hourly basis, I had no holidays, no sick pay. Language schools are not the best employers, but that happens everywhere, as far as I know.
We must not mix up what it means living permanently in a country and only for a period of time, in the first case, of course, we must consider more carefully how it looks like.
Apart from the peculiarities of a certain country, I think that there are always pros and contras wherever you are.
Good luck for your daughter, whatever her choice is.
Daniela


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xxxGabi Ancarol
Italy
Italian to Spanish
+ ...
Pleaseee! Aug 5, 2005

All countries have pros and cons! Don't be so pesimistic... (by the way, I experienced the crisis in Argentina...Italy is not quite the same...)anyway, why are italians so reluctant to foreigners these days...specially if they want to work? Teaching abroad can be an exciting experience. Don't miss it

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Giuseppina Gatta, MA (Hons)
Member (2005)
English to Italian
+ ...
You probably misunderstood.... Aug 7, 2005

Maria Ancarola wrote:
anyway, why are italians so reluctant to foreigners these days...specially if they want to work?


Dear Maria, you probably misunderstood me and the other colleagues which suggested not to come to Italy. I have nothing against foreign people working in Italy, and I'm sure neither my colleagues. Btw, generalizing is never a good thing...
I would never invite somebody which is traveling on a beautiful and solid cruise ship into my little boat full of crack which looks near to sink... would you?

ciao
Giusi


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Dinny  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 16:15
Italian to Danish
+ ...
A word from the foreigner Aug 9, 2005

While living in Italy may include challenges such as "how do I pay my bills with this type of salary?" it still is a wonderful experience! The people, the weather, the food, etc. ... there are still a lot of things worth while in Italy. I came here more than 4 years ago - being over 50 had people look at me as if I was crazy, how could I even dream of getting a job? Well, I got a job and all the rest and I've been happy here, so I won't join the choir of pessimists. It CAN be done, but you need something in your luggage as to luck, skills, and an attitude of never giving up! A little money on your bank account to start with wouldn't be a bad idea. Or: parents at home who are willing to chip in if the going gets tough.

If your daughter is not taking this opportunity to get a unique experience now, when would she ever?

Make sure the contract is waterproof, find a place to live before she leaves... and make the best of it!

In bocca al lupo!


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