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Proposal for open question limit (staff: 'already exists')
Thread poster: Satto (Roberto)

Satto (Roberto)  Identity Verified
Colombia
Local time: 01:19
Member (2007)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Mar 21, 2008

Am I seeing certain trend?

People endlessly using Kudoz to ask questions and never bothering to say "thanks", using the results and leaving the questions open.

I propose that when a person reaches a limit of 10 quetions asked, he/she not be allowed to ask more question until he/she closes the previous ones.

To me this is just like the person that feeds off a good system but doesn't care to give back..

It's like the people that close questions and want a few more points and add it to the KOG. Then you open the KOG and the is answer is "look below"... ARRGGG!

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2008-03-23 10:38]


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lexical  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 08:19
Portuguese to English
ditto Mar 21, 2008

I've noticed that in my language pair too. I thought there was a rule about this, but it doesn't seem to be enforced.

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xxxmediamatrix
Local time: 02:19
Spanish to English
+ ...
A suggestion Mar 21, 2008

There was a case just a few days ago in spa--> eng, where the moderator came across an asker with over 20 unclosed questions. In one of those questions he posted a note to the asker, identifying himself as a moderator, asking the asker to close it. I was notified because I had provided an answer to the question - which had been posted several months ago.

The asker did as (s)he was told very quickly - but obviously took the 'easy option', selecting the first answer and giving it 4 KudoZ - even though (s)he had specifically declined that same answer when it was submitted! (As it happens, (s)he had also declined my answer...).

I called the moderator's attention to what had happened as a result of his intervention - the main problem being utter rubbish in the glossary. He and I exchanged several e-mails: he invited me to edit the glossary, but I was unable to access it for editing, and in the end the moderator had to deal with it himself (which he did on the basis of my answer).

Off-topic: I'm still not sure why I couldn't edit it - maybe because my answer had also been 'declined' by the asker???

On-topic again:
In this case, the asker was abusing the system not only in not closing the question at an appropriate time. (S)he also declined both the answers (s)he received, so neither of them could get any 'agrees' that might later lead to automatic grading; and when told (politely) to close it, (s)he did so in a way detrimental to the glossary, to an extent that even automatic grading based on two net agrees doesn't usually cause.

I believe that people who abuse the system like this are not going to change their ways, whether asked, cajoled, instructed - or threatened by some quota system. By making it obligatory to clear the back-log of open questions before askers are allowed to ask more questions will simply provoke those abusers into clicking anything, literally anything on the page that will get 'the system' (or the moderator...) 'off their backs' and re-open the door for their next question.

Where such abuse is detected - as in the case I've already mentioned - I suggest that the best solution for the community at large is either to leave the question open (perhaps for ever...?), or for the system to allow a moderator (for that pair) to close it discretely, or for the moderator to invite one of the answerers to close it (which would require some re-programming of the page, no doubt).

MediaMatrix


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Milena Čkripeska  Identity Verified
Macedonia (FYROM)
Local time: 08:19
Member (2009)
English to Macedonian
+ ...

MODERATOR
This sounds very familiar to me! Mar 21, 2008

My language pairs have the same problem. Looks like askers do not appreciate at all the efforts the answerers have made. As a result, I am fed up with checkouts whether my answer is chosen as the most helpful or not. And, almost always experiencing the very same "deja vu" situation: no reply and no words of thankfulness.

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Kristina Kolic  Identity Verified
Croatia
Local time: 08:19
Member (2007)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Closing a question within an appropriate period of time Mar 22, 2008

We already have two KudoZ Rules that apply in this particular case:

KudoZ Rule 2.8: "There is a limit to the number of KudoZ questions that can be posted per day and per week. Limits are automatically imposed based on an asker's membership condition. Taking steps to bypass these limits is prohibited"

KudoZ Rule 2.6: "(...) Askers who do not close their questions within an appropriate period of time are not permitted to ask further questions. (...)"

These rules are clear enough, except for the terms "appropriate period of time", which lacks of precision. There might be another rule to that effect, but I didn't find it.

Askers are also invited to "(...) allow at least twenty-four (24) hours to pass before closing a question." (KudoZ Rule 2.11), meaning that this "appropriate period of time" should be more than 24 hours, but it should, in my opinion, be less than a week.

Therefore, the real question is: what does this "appropriate period of time" refer to? A certain number of days, one week or more? Is there any time limitation for a KudoZ question (on a single basis) to remain open regardless of the total number of KudoZ questions asked? Or is this time limitation to be understood in relation to the number of KudoZ questions that an asker can post per day or week?

Personally, I don't ask many questions, and thus I don't know if the asker is actually prevented from asking further KudoZ questions if he/she hasn't closed his/her prior KudoZ questions, for instance, with a message being displayed when trying to ask a new question, which could say, more or less, the following: "Access to posting a further KudoZ question is denied unless you close x open KudoZ questions".


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Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:19
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
It is already in place - the FAQ explains the mechanism Mar 22, 2008

Please see:
http://www.proz.com/faq/kudoz#kudoz_question_limit

31. ASKING: Is there a limit on the number of questions that I can ask?

Yes. Your daily limit (measured over a sliding 24-hr period) depends on your membership level. If you are not registered with ProZ.com, you can ask one (1) question per day. If you are registered but not member, you can ask five (5). If you are member, you can ask fifteen (15). There are also weekly limits of 20 questions for registered non-members and 60 questions for members. If you have ten (10) questions that have received valid answers and have been open for more than a week, you will not be allowed to ask further questions. Please grade and close these questions to continue asking.


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 02:19
SITE FOUNDER
Right, Katalin Mar 23, 2008

Technically speaking, barring a bug, the only way a user with more than 10 open questions should be able to ask a new one, is if no more than 10 are older than a week.

In other words, an asker has a week to grade before there is a repercussion to leaving a question open.


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Satto (Roberto)  Identity Verified
Colombia
Local time: 01:19
Member (2007)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
How to you explain this? Mar 23, 2008

Henry D wrote:

Technically speaking, barring a bug, the only way a user with more than 10 open questions should be able to ask a new one, is if no more than 10 are older than a week.

In other words, an asker has a week to grade before there is a repercussion to leaving a question open.


http://www.proz.com/kudoz/2486926 this asker has 16 questions open and some date back to January??


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xxxmediamatrix
Local time: 02:19
Spanish to English
+ ...
Loop-hole? Mar 23, 2008

Satto (Roberto) wrote:

Henry D wrote:

Technically speaking, barring a bug, the only way a user with more than 10 open questions should be able to ask a new one, is if no more than 10 are older than a week.

In other words, an asker has a week to grade before there is a repercussion to leaving a question open.


http://www.proz.com/kudoz/2486926 this asker has 16 questions open and some date back to January??


I've just looked at the old un-closed questions asked by the user named (indirectly) by Roberto. It would apppear that this person - like the person behind the case I mentioned in my previous post - had declined all the answers to these old questions.

So, if the logic behind the process explained by Katalin and Henry considers these questions as not having received valid answers then the 10-question counter will ignore them ... and we will continue to see excessive back-log of unclosed questions.

This is more of a loop-hole than a bug, and there are several ways this could be resolved. Let's hope staff put it on their 'to-do' list.

MediaMatrix


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Steffen Walter  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 08:19
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
Decline option should not be there anymore Mar 24, 2008

mediamatrix wrote: I've just looked at the old un-closed questions asked by the user named (indirectly) by Roberto. It would apppear that this person - like the person behind the case I mentioned in my previous post - had declined all the answers to these old questions.


I am astonished to hear that askers are still able to decline answers. To my knowledge, this feature had been abandoned long ago.

Steffen


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Kristina Kolic  Identity Verified
Croatia
Local time: 08:19
Member (2007)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Decline if answer found elsewhere Mar 24, 2008

Actually, I don't see why the Decline option should not be available and, in my opinion, it should be used, provided that no suitable answer has been posted, i.e. if the asker found the right answer elsewhere. And it happens, at least in my language pairs.

However, I would like to see this Decline option coupled with an obligation for the asker to enter the "right answer" that he/she found elsewhere. Otherwise, this option could be misused, which might be the case to which Roberto is referring.


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Steffen Walter  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 08:19
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
Two concepts Mar 24, 2008

Kristina Mijic wrote:

Actually, I don't see why the Decline option should not be available and, in my opinion, it should be used, provided that no suitable answer has been posted, i.e. if the asker found the right answer elsewhere. And it happens, at least in my language pairs.

However, I would like to see this Decline option coupled with an obligation for the asker to enter the "right answer" that he/she found elsewhere. Otherwise, this option could be misused, which might be the case to which Roberto is referring.


Hi Kristina,

I believe you are mixing two concepts here, namely, a) the option to select none of the answers provided, and to close the question without grading for one of the various reasons available (such as "Answer found elsewhere"), and b) the possibility to decline answers individually. To my knowledge, the latter feature has long been phased out.

Steffen


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Kristina Kolic  Identity Verified
Croatia
Local time: 08:19
Member (2007)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Decline answers individually? Mar 24, 2008

Hi Steffen,

Sorry, but I didn't know about an option to decline answers individually and, I must admit, I do not quite understand its purpose. As I see it, there should only be two options when closing a question: select one of the answers or close without grading (answer found elsewhere)...


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Steffen Walter  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 08:19
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
Thank you for clarifying Mar 24, 2008

Kristina Mijic wrote:
Sorry, but I didn't know about an option to decline answers individually and, I must admit, I do not quite understand its purpose. As I see it, there should only be two options when closing a question: select one of the answers or close without grading (answer found elsewhere)...


Thank you for the clarification, and yes, as I said, the "decline answer (individually)" feature has been abolished long ago, most probably before you registered with ProZ.com.

Steffen


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KathyT  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 16:19
Japanese to English
Is this a record? SIXTY open questions!!! Mar 24, 2008

I was following this discussion with interest, when lo and behold, I discovered a question asked by a person with **60** (not a typo!) open questions....
The person in question seems to be a high volume KudoZ user, (both asking and answering) so perhaps it's all relative, but WOW!
Unfortunately, I don't have the time (or motivation) to see if this is another case of old questions where the posted answers were declined, but that's some loophole!

[Edited at 2008-03-25 13:55]


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