Where to have an interesting discussion?
Thread poster: Hilde Granlund

Hilde Granlund  Identity Verified
Norway
Local time: 04:46
English to Norwegian
+ ...
Mar 25, 2008

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/2492386

Here is a good example of misusing the "ask asker" function. This is a difficult term to translate. Obviously it is a benefit to have a discussion about it among several experienced translators.
But this is not what the ask asker function is meant for, is it?
Still, I for one, like those questions best where an interesting discussion follws.
Is there a place for such at thing, or is this all about competition?


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Mikhail Kropotov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 05:46
Member (2005)
English to Russian
+ ...
The discussion is relevant to the term Mar 25, 2008

Therefore, it is completely appropriate.

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Stanislaw Czech, MCIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:46
Member (2006)
English to Polish
+ ...
I can hardly imagine a better use of the "ask asker" function Mar 25, 2008

I think that the discussion was relevant to the subject, and most of all helpful to the asker and all potential persons trying to answer.

Cheers
Stanislaw


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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:46
Member (2000)
Russian to English
+ ...
Yes, the ask asker function is well used here Mar 25, 2008

Whether it is strictly "by the book" or not, it's an example of the good use of this function.
I have seen some recent examples of not-so-good use of it, but these were correctly dealt with by the moderator at the time.


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Andy Watkinson
Spain
Local time: 04:46
Member
Catalan to English
+ ...
Diagnosis correct Mar 26, 2008

Hi Hilde,

I'm afraid to say your diagnosis is correct. It IS all about competition.

There was a thread about this several months ago in which some eminently sensible soul suggested providing a space for exactly this kind of exchange of ideas, reminiscent of when KudoZ was originally not a free for all, must-get-the-points exercise.

The benefits are obvious. There are many occasions when I post not answers but simply information in response to questions, merely to help the asker.
After all, that's the point of the whole exercise, if I'm not very much mistaken.

Many people can offer valuable information but do not actually post answers as such because they don't have the time to present a fully researched answer; don't know the answer to a particular question but have experience in that field; can shed some light on an obscure term without being sure of any answer in particular....etc.

If I remember rightly, the powers that be said they thought this was an interesting idea and "would do something"........

Lo último que se pierde es la esperanza.

Cheers,
Andy


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RNAtranslator  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:46
English to Spanish
+ ...
Is KudoZ intended for discussion about terminology or just a contest? Mar 27, 2008

Stanislaw Czech wrote:

I can hardly imagine a better use of the "ask asker" function

I think that the discussion was relevant to the subject, and most of all helpful to the asker and all potential persons trying to answer.

Cheers
Stanislaw


I do agree with you, but such a use of "ask asker" is against the rules:

Rule 1.3:
"1.3. Text boxes may be used only for their intended purposes. For example:
The "Ask the Asker" box makes it possible to ask for additional information concerning a question or its context.
(...)
Use of the above form fields for purposes other than those described is prohibited.
"
http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_general/1.3#1.3

Rule 3.4:
"The only acceptable means of commenting on another's answer is by using the peer comment feature."
http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_answ/3.4#3.4

Yes, it is a very good use of the space "ask asker" and it's against the rules, just because the above rules and the whole interface are crazy.

It is clear that interface's goal, as it is designed, is intended as a contest (...and the winner is...) not as a way to help each other with difficult expressions.

At least in biomedical translations, in order to help with some expressions, we need to discuss about scientific and technical concepts not easy to explain to some askers. Sometimes you have to explain that a certain word have a very different meaning than the one in common English and discrepancies occur betwen answerers, and it is clear that the interface is not intended for that type of discussion, it is just a contest.

If the goal were to help with difficult expressions a redesign from scratch woud be needed. But I am not sure if this is the goal. Don't forget this is a commercial site, and the goal is to get profit for the owners. On the other side, the owners should not forget that their profit depends on the presence and quality of translators in their site. At least about me, as soon as I find a good place to discuss about terminology I will leave KudoZ. I'm fed up with its interface.


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lluvia39
Local time: 23:46
English to Spanish
+ ...
Useful to me!! Mar 27, 2008

Hilde, and everyone else,
As a new user of ProZ and a freelance translator starting this line of work only very recently, I find it extremely useful to read the comments of the "ask askers", and have even asked questions only to learn a bit more about the term...
Realmente lo encuentro muy enriquecedor!.


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Nesrin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:46
English to Arabic
+ ...
Rename "ask the asker" field? Mar 27, 2008

I think the simple solution may be to just rename the "ask the asker" field, to allow for a discussion to take place without feeling you're misusing the "ask the asker" function by not actually asking anything.
It could be renamed into something like "discuss term" or whatever.


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Steffen Walter  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:46
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
Separate field / provide two fields Mar 27, 2008

Nesrin wrote:
I think the simple solution may be to just rename the "ask the asker" field, to allow for a discussion to take place without feeling you're misusing the "ask the asker" function by not actually asking anything.
It could be renamed into something like "discuss term" or whatever.


Hi Nesrin,

If at all possible layout-wise, I'd rather provide an additional field for discussion, rather than renaming the "Ask the asker" field, which should remain reserved for just this purpose in order not to be cluttered too much. IIRC, the possibility of such an addition has been suggested and discussed before.

Steffen


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Nesrin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:46
English to Arabic
+ ...
The disadvantage of having two separate fields Mar 27, 2008

Steffen Walter wrote:

If at all possible layout-wise, I'd rather provide an additional field for discussion, rather than renaming the "Ask the asker" field, which should remain reserved for just this purpose in order not to be cluttered too much. IIRC, the possibility of such an addition has been suggested and discussed before.

Steffen


The disadvantage of that, I think, is that a question and the discussion that ensues can often not be separated from each other. E.g. I ask for more context, the asker replies, which prompts a comment from a third person on that context etc.. If we have two separate fields, the logical sequence of the discussion may have to be broken.
I'm sorry I haven't followed the previous discussions of this matter, so I don't know if all this has been said before.


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moken  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:46
English to Spanish
+ ...
Using the ask asker function to preserve Kudoz answer position Apr 25, 2008

One pathetic and irritating misuse of the ask asker function that I think ought to be cracked down on is when people who have entered an answer add further comments or details in the ask asker box simply to avoid dropping down in the 'answer queue'.

Simultaneously however, I feel that this is a petty complaint to raise with already-busy moderators and I don't like the idea of public finger-pointing to shame other users.

Of course, you can always send private notes, but aren't the people who do this already well aware of why they're doing it? They must realise that they're being rude, mustn't they?

Sorry if I've drifted from the initial idea of the thread, but I'm not sure whether it's worth a thread of its own.


Happy holidays! (Oh no, it's only me who's going away!)

Delightedly,

Alvaro


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