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Is there a rule saying that each and every chosen answer MUST be entered into the glossary?
Thread poster: Christel Zipfel

Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Italy
Member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
Jul 9, 2008

Never been aware of it:-)

There are some clueless askers around that pick up whatever crosses the mind of some even more clueless answerer and all this senseless stuff ends up in the glossary!

Not to speak of the tenth identical entry of the same identical term, entries of whole sentences that never will be looked up again, typos, "see below" and so on.

I know this has been discussed before, but it goes from bad to worse and no measures have ever been taken to prevent this. There could be implemented for instance a warning "Are you sure this term is really correct/useful?" or whatever, and double/triple entries and so on should be blocked automatically, or even more drastical restraints could be provided and would be very useful.

I am afraid however we shall just have to live with our frustration and close our eyes... Personally I doubt I am able to stick that much longer.




[Bearbeitet am 2008-07-09 20:16]


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Steffen Walter  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:28
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
Simple remedy - prompt askers to make entry MANUALLY Jul 9, 2008

Hi Christel,

As it stands now, the terms/phrases chosen are already entered in the target field by the system as part of the closing/grading process, which results in many nonsensical entries of the "see below" type because of the carelessness of askers. By contrast, askers should always be prompted to make a manual entry when closing their questions. Preferably, the entry interface should include a big red warning saying "Please check your entry before submitting and make sure not to include any phrase of the 'see below' type. Also, please ensure that source and target term/phrase correspond to each other.". I'd very much appreciate if this feature can be changed program-wise as this (semi-)automatic system of making entries has done more harm than good (in my view). In my pairs, I am constantly busy with editing or deleting such erroneous entries.

Also, the content of many questions asked is not exactly suitable for the glossary format, which is why no entry should be made in these cases. The source term/phrase will remain searchable in the KudoZ archives nonetheless.

Best regards,
Steffen

[Edited at 2008-07-09 19:39]


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Amy Duncan  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 08:28
Portuguese to English
+ ...
I've always had the option Jul 9, 2008

Whenever I've picked an answer, I've gotten the option to enter it into the glossary or not. I've entered the terms I think might be useful to someone else, but sometimes answers are too long-winded or context specific to enter them. Maybe the practice of entering unsuitable answers in the glossary might be discouraged a bit by not granting any BrowniZ points for doing so.

Amy


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Steffen Walter  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:28
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
Sure but entry option is ticked by default in grading interface Jul 9, 2008

Amy Duncan wrote:
Whenever I've picked an answer, I've gotten the option to enter it into the glossary or not.


Sure, Amy, but the glossary entry option is ticked (i.e. activated) by default in the KudoZ grading interface if I remember correctly, and source and target term/phrase are already entered automatically by the system. By contrast, the entry option should be unticked by default to prompt askers to think twice and check the content before submission, and to prevent nonsensical entries as a result.

Steffen


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Özden Arıkan  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:28
Member
English to Turkish
Manual entry may lead to more typos Jul 9, 2008

Because, I suspect they would be made in a haste and frustration (of having been forced to type!). But it would be great if another step could be added: right after clicking "Add to glossary" the entry could be displayed one more time, accompanied by a note in red letters, as Steffen says. "Have you checked the spelling?" might be added. Even, a "Did you earn your BrowniZ today?" might help!

BTW, Steffen, entry option is not (any more) ticked by default, if I am not very wrong.


Another suggestion, against a problem Christel mentioned: if the same term (or similar ones) are already in the glossary, they might be displayed after "Add to glossary button" is hit and the entry maker might be prompted if s/he would still want to make the entry.

Well, if you ask me, I would not hesitate to add another note: If you don't even speak one of the languages in the pair, please leave the glossary entry to those who do!


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The Misha
Local time: 07:28
Russian to English
+ ...
Don't lose sleep over it - the glossary is useless anyway Jul 10, 2008

You are right, this has been discussed before, as recently as the day before, as a matter of fact. The glossary is fairly useless anyway, since looking for a particular context-specific answer in this haphazard compilation of stray answers is really time-consuming crapshoot. I never bother with it, and neither should you. Use your brain - and GOOGLE.

[Edited at 2008-07-10 05:22]


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Steffen Walter  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:28
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
I stand corrected Jul 10, 2008

Özden Arıkan wrote:
BTW, Steffen, entry option is not (any more) ticked by default, if I am not very wrong.


You are right, Özden, I stand corrected. I've asked a question just yesterday and can only confirm your observation. The warnings should still be added, though.

Steffen


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Steffen Walter  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:28
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
Outright dismissal of glossary unjustified Jul 10, 2008

The Misha wrote:
You are right, this has been discussed before, as recently as the day before, as a matter of fact. The glossary is fairly useless anyway, since looking for a particular context-specific answer in this haphazard compilation of stray answers is really time-consuming crapshoot. I never bother with it, and neither should you. Use your brain - and GOOGLE.


That's what I call a sweeping (and absolutely unjustified) generalisation, Misha. At least in my language pairs, the glossary has often turned out to be very useful when it came to examples of rare/new usage/terms. All it takes is to (use your brain to) sufficiently fine-tune your ProZ.com term search (I do admit that the search feature would greatly benefit from some functional improvement) and to open the relevant KudoZ questions to have a closer look at the discussions, which are much more helpful than the term actually entered in the glossary in many cases.

My 2c worth,
Steffen


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Noni Gilbert
Spain
Local time: 13:28
Member (2007)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Shoddy entries Jul 10, 2008

Whilst I agree that there are countless useless entries in the glossary, useless in many cases because they have been shoddily entered, the body of the glossary is, in my opinion, an indispensable tool. Using it can indeed be frustrating, and we must never forget that much of the information posted there may be misleading or downright wrong (not to mention typos, spelling mistakes - I distinguish between the two - and so on.

I have made comments in the past to ProZ staff about how this valuable resource is not being properly taken advantage of because of format problems, and the response has been that a reform does indeed need to be carried out. But such a reform would require such a huge amount of work...

My little drop in the ocean is to try to do my bit:

* I don't put in entries if I think they will really be of no use or be misleading or confusing. I confess that in my early ProZ days I was keen to put everything into the gloss because of those beckoning points. Fortunately that stage didn't last very long.
* I put verbs into the infinitive where possible
* I eliminate parts of the posting which were necessary for me but are not relevant for a glossary
* I include alternatives suggested beyond the chosen answer if they are useful
* I identify differences between US and GB English where possible
etc.

All very subjective, I know, but I try to do a good job!

I can't find much guidance on the site (may not be looking in the right place) on glossary compilation, and I do think that not infrequent comments on the subject could be directed at users via e-mail - even if only a few of us took any notice, there would be some improvement.

[Edited at 2008-07-10 07:57]


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Nikki Graham  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:28
Partial member (2003)
Spanish to English
See below no longer possible Jul 10, 2008

Steffen Walter wrote:
As it stands now, the terms/phrases chosen are already entered in the target field by the system as part of the closing/grading process, which results in many nonsensical entries of the "see below" type because of the carelessness of askers.


if you type in "see below" you now get the following message in red:

Error

You must enter a term or phrase suggestion in the first box provided for your answer. Phrases such as "see below" must not be entered, as they have no value in the glossaries, digests, and other resources that are generated automatically.


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MGL  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 13:28
Russian to English
2 more cents Jul 10, 2008

Steffen Walter wrote:

The Misha wrote:
You are right, this has been discussed before, as recently as the day before, as a matter of fact. The glossary is fairly useless anyway, since looking for a particular context-specific answer in this haphazard compilation of stray answers is really time-consuming crapshoot. I never bother with it, and neither should you. Use your brain - and GOOGLE.


That's what I call a sweeping (and absolutely unjustified) generalisation, Misha. At least in my language pairs, the glossary has often turned out to be very useful when it came to examples of rare/new usage/terms. All it takes is to (use your brain to) sufficiently fine-tune your ProZ.com term search (I do admit that the search feature would greatly benefit from some functional improvement) and to open the relevant KudoZ questions to have a closer look at the discussions, which are much more helpful than the term actually entered in the glossary in many cases.

My 2c worth,
Steffen


I share one language pair with The Misha, and I have to say I completely agree with him.


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Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Italy
Member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Normally, I don't find all this garbage in the glossary Jul 10, 2008

The Misha wrote:

You are right, this has been discussed before, as recently as the day before, as a matter of fact. The glossary is fairly useless anyway, since looking for a particular context-specific answer in this haphazard compilation of stray answers is really time-consuming crapshoot. I never bother with it, and neither should you. Use your brain - and GOOGLE.

[Edited at 2008-07-10 05:22]


and I don't find it useless generally (in my language pairs).

It was just because I noticed recently a lot of really senseless answers. Bad enough that they were chosen, but then also, they all end up in the glossary! What I still see when I look it up is a lot of multiple entries and "see below" (not in English, of course, because English is not my working language, but in other languages somehow it is still possible).

But yes, I use my brain and Google anyway...

I think if entries were to be made manually, this would already be a deterrent for potential glossary enterers. As it stands now, you click - and have earnt 10 BrowniZ! Who cares whether the same term is already there, whether your entry is correct or for example a verb is put, like aceavila - Noni says, into the infinitive or whatever?

Entries should be made more difficult.

[Bearbeitet am 2008-07-10 21:12]


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Özden Arıkan  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:28
Member
English to Turkish
Yes, but in how many languages? Jul 11, 2008

Nikki Graham wrote:

See below no longer possible

if you type in "see below" you now get the following message in red:

Error

You must enter a term or phrase suggestion in the first box provided for your answer. Phrases such as "see below" must not be entered, as they have no value in the glossaries, digests, and other resources that are generated automatically.




Just tested it in Turkish, works perfectly


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