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List of "all time" leaders
Thread poster: Lori Cirefice

Lori Cirefice  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 03:07
French to English
Jul 22, 2008

Sadly, a major contributor to the French - English KudoZ pair recently left proz.com

I was surprised that the member in question no longer appears in the "all time" KudoZ leaders list. Not even as xxxMemberName. That's a shame really, IMO.

The title of the list is misleading.


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Henry Hinds  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:07
English to Spanish
+ ...
It's happened before Jul 22, 2008

Some people with very impressive point totals have withdrawn or been expelled from Proz.com.

It's like when you have left a job, and later someone calls asking for you and they just say, "he/she does not work here anymore" or "no one here by that name" and that's it. Ask any more and they say "we don't know", but it really means "we don't care".

As long as you are there you are a "valued member of the team". The day you leave, you become a non-person.


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Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 20:07
German to English
Where have all the flowers gone? Jul 22, 2008

Henry Hinds wrote:

It's like when you have left a job, and later someone calls asking for you and they just say, "he/she does not work here anymore" or "no one here by that name" and that's it. Ask any more and they say "we don't know", but it really means "we don't care".

As long as you are there you are a "valued member of the team". The day you leave, you become a non-person.


Gracias, amigo. Truer words were never spoken.

[Edited at 2008-07-22 23:33]


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Maria Karra  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 22:07
Member (2000)
Greek to English
+ ...
another point of view Jul 23, 2008

If users decide to delete their profile, that means they no longer want to be associated with ProZ.com. Right? So why would they want their name to be visible on the site's front page? And why would ProZ.com continue to display their name when they chose not to be part of the site?
If you see the list as a historical record of kudoz leaders, then perhaps what you're saying makes sense. But I think the list is more than that. It's a form of advertisement. Does it make sense to advertise the services/profiles of people who have left, and whose profile and contact information cannot be found on ProZ.com?

I don't think a list that doesn't show those names is misleading. To me, a list showing them would be misleading, because if I click on a name I expect to find an existing profile, not a removed one; if I were a visitor to the site, that would look like a bug or an outdated list.

Maria

[Edited at 2008-07-23 02:43]


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Gisela Greenlee  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:07
German to English
+ ...
That's how it works Jul 23, 2008

I agree with Maria - when you leave a position, your name is no longer on the employee roster, if you leave a building as a tenant, you name is no longer on the tenant list. I don't see why someone's record should remain on display here once they have left, whether they did so voluntarily or for other reasons. Obviously, someone leaving voluntarily had their own reasons and those must be respected. But, as Maria said, you wouldn't want someone to click on their information only to find an empty profile. Imaging driving by an office tower with the name of one of the major tenants prominently displayed, but that tenant hasn't officed there in a long time - wouldn't you find it odd?

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Henry Hinds  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:07
English to Spanish
+ ...
The other point of view Jul 23, 2008

I understand the other point of view, and I think it should naturally be up to the persons involved and Proz.com. If both agree, then the record of a participant who is no longer registered should stand. If one checks their "profile", then it should merely connect with a message stating that the person is no longer active on the site. But all should be in agreement, I would think.

The fact is, in going through old questions, many can be found that have been answered by persons who for one reason or another are no longer active, but the questions are not removed because they are part of our accumulated knowledge. Just like at work, you can go through the files and find a lot of things done by those "non-persons" who no longer work there, but that information must remain.

And would it not be appropriate to honor those who have passed on, as some have sadly but inevitably done, by leaving their record as a memorial to their efforts? I ask you...


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Tomás Cano Binder, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 03:07
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
A token of appreciation Jul 23, 2008

Henry Hinds wrote:
And would it not be appropriate to honor those who have passed on, as some have sadly but inevitably done, by leaving their record as a memorial to their efforts? I ask you...


I completely agree. The fact that you are not paying as a member anymore (or that Proz does not agree with your behaviour) does not mean that you did not contribute with thousands of answers whose results are in the KOG glossaries and are part of Proz's assets and value proposal. At least, the non-member should be given the option to stay in the list for several years, as a token of appreciation.


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Niels Stephan  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 03:07
Member (2009)
English to German
Non-paying members in leader boards Jul 23, 2008

Maria Karra wrote:

I don't think a list that doesn't show those names is misleading. To me, a list showing them would be misleading, because if I click on a name I expect to find an existing profile, not a removed one; if I were a visitor to the site, that would look like a bug or an outdated list.


Maria,
sorry, this is a bit off topic, but reading this from the hands of a moderator makes me write, what came to my mind a while ago.

proz.com offered me a certain discount for becoming a paying member of the site, because I'd be a "very active contributor to the kudoz system".
Would it probably - in line with the above comment - be the first logical step to make the names of non-members in the leader lists clickable? That would at least show appreciation. More honest one than the discount offered


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Stuart Dowell  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 03:07
Member (2007)
Polish to English
+ ...
But if they have removed their profile? Jul 23, 2008

I understand that if someone stops paying their annual Proz membership then they continue to have a profile on the site as a non-member. Therefore, their Kudoz records should still be visible.

This would happen in the case of someone who just stopped using the site and took no further action.

If someone actually goes to the effort of removing their profile from the site, then surely Proz has to repsect their wishes and remove them from things like Kudoz lists.


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xxxJon O  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:07
Dutch to English
+ ...
Expelled? What for? Jul 23, 2008

I find this extraordinary, what on earth have people done to manage to get themselves expelled?

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Lori Cirefice  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 03:07
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
the other point of view Jul 23, 2008

I do understand the other point of view as well, I guess I just felt that the "all time" list should reflect past contributors as well. Assuming the ex-member so desires.

When someone removes their profile, all forum posts and KudoZ remain on the site, my reasoning was following that logic.

The member I'm referring to left voluntarily - it's not a question of paying/non-paying members.


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 22:07
SITE FOUNDER
It has to do with removing a profile Jul 23, 2008

Tomás Cano Binder wrote:
The fact that you are not paying as a member anymore (or that Proz does not agree with your behaviour) does not mean that you did not contribute with thousands of answers whose results are in the KOG glossaries and are part of Proz's assets and value proposal. At least, the non-member should be given the option to stay in the list for several years, as a token of appreciation.

It is when a profile is removed that the name disappears from the list (just as it appears from many places in the site, such as the testimonials area). The phenomenon is not related to whether or not you pay, and it is not philosophical; technically speaking, these areas of the site are just looking for a profile that is not terminated. You don't have to do anything to stay there.

Profiles can also be reinstated on request (although that carries with it the occasional mailing.)


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Lawyer-Linguist  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 02:07
Dutch to English
+ ...
Simple ... Jul 23, 2008

Jon O wrote:

I find this extraordinary, what on earth have people done to manage to get themselves expelled?


... they've broken the rules.

Whether or not those rules are always consistently applied is debatable, but that's OT here.


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