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"Clarification" and "discussion" areas have been merged
Thread poster: Enrique Cavalitto

Enrique Cavalitto
Local time: 07:12
SITE STAFF
Apr 14, 2009

Dear members,

After a fruitful discussion in this forum, the following changes have been implemented in the KudoZ system:

  • The "clarification" and "discussion" features in KudoZ have been merged in the discussion area.

  • All past clarification exchanges are now shown in the discussion area, as discussion entries without titles.

  • Discussion entries can now be sorted with the first post on top or with the last post on top (last post on top is the default). Selecting this preference in one question will store the setting for your view of all discussion entries.




  • Entries from the asker can be easily identified by the word "ASKER" and by a slightly darker background.



  • The time stamp of entries older than a day will now show time and date (instead of just date).


    Thanks to our members for making these changes possible.

    Regards,
    Enrique

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  • Tomás Cano Binder, CT  Identity Verified
    Spain
    Local time: 11:12
    Member (2005)
    English to Spanish
    + ...
    Great! Apr 14, 2009

    I love it! I also love the way agree/disagree comments are edited now. Right in line. Lovely.

    Edited for this:
    However, would it be possible to have "Send me notifications about this discussion." checked by default? The behaviour of being always notified of further clarification entries was very handy, and it would be great to have it now as well. If I ask or explain something in the Discuss panel, I want to read what others (even the asker) have to say in the discussion.

    [Edited at 2009-04-14 19:21 GMT]


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    Yaotl Altan  Identity Verified
    Mexico
    Local time: 04:12
    Member (2006)
    English to Spanish
    + ...
    Great Apr 14, 2009

    Great fusion and new implementations!
    Thanx!


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    Nesrin  Identity Verified
    United Kingdom
    Local time: 10:12
    English to Arabic
    + ...
    Thanks and agree with Tomas Apr 14, 2009

    Just today I added a discussion entry and wondered how long it will take before the two areas are merged. So thanks

    Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
    However, would it be possible to have "Send me notifications about this discussion." checked by default? The behaviour of being always notified of further clarification entries was very handy, and it would be great to have it now as well. If I ask or explain something in the Discuss panel, I want to read what others (even the asker) have to say in the discussion.


    I agree with that. Not just the discussants, but most answerers (I believe) would like to be notified by default of discussion entries. It would be a shame if they remained completely unaware that there's a discussion on a question they answered. If someone is particularly uninterested in the discussion, they can uncheck the relevant box.


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    xxxhazmatgerman
    Local time: 11:12
    English to German
    Thank you Enrique, Apr 15, 2009

    much more convenient this way. Regards.

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    xxxjacana54  Identity Verified
    Uruguay
    English to Spanish
    + ...
    Yes, much simpler Apr 15, 2009

    And I agree with Tomás too.

    Thank you, Enrique!

    saludos,

    Lucía


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    Enrique Cavalitto
    Local time: 07:12
    SITE STAFF
    TOPIC STARTER
    Notifications of discussion entries Apr 15, 2009

    Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

    I love it! I also love the way agree/disagree comments are edited now. Right in line. Lovely.

    Edited for this:
    However, would it be possible to have "Send me notifications about this discussion." checked by default? The behaviour of being always notified of further clarification entries was very handy, and it would be great to have it now as well. If I ask or explain something in the Discuss panel, I want to read what others (even the asker) have to say in the discussion.


    Hi Tomás, thanks for your kind words!

    When you ask to have "Send me notifications about this discussion." checked by default, what questions do you have in mind?

    Receiving them for each discussion entry in all questions selected in your dashboard for notification would be a lot of notifications.

    Isn't it better for users to decide what question they find interesting, and ask for notifications about discussion entries only for these?

    Kind regards,
    Enrique


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    Nesrin  Identity Verified
    United Kingdom
    Local time: 10:12
    English to Arabic
    + ...
    As in the old "Clarifications" Apr 15, 2009

    Enrique wrote:

    When you ask to have "Send me notifications about this discussion." checked by default, what questions do you have in mind?

    Receiving them for each discussion entry in all questions selected in your dashboard for notification would be a lot of notifications.

    Isn't it better for users to decide what question they find interesting, and ask for notifications about discussion entries only for these?

    Kind regards,
    Enrique



    Hi Enrique!

    I think what Tomas meant - certainly what I meant - is to have notifications of discussion entries sent by default (unless one opts out) to everyone who has contributed to the discussion, as well as everyone who replied to the question (not to everyone who has just subscribed to such questions). I believe that is exactly how things were with the former "clarification" area.

    Regards,

    Nesrin


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    Stéphanie Soudais  Identity Verified
    France
    Local time: 11:12
    Member (2006)
    English to French
    Thank you but... Apr 15, 2009

    Thanks for the merging Enrique!

    However, I don't really like the fact you have to scroll down to see the whole discussion.

    Personally, I'd have preferred a discussion box looking like the - now old - clarification area.

    Stéphanie

    [Edited at 2009-04-15 14:31 GMT]


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    Enrique Cavalitto
    Local time: 07:12
    SITE STAFF
    TOPIC STARTER
    Scroll in discussion area Apr 15, 2009

    Stéphanie Soudais wrote:

    Thanks for the merging Enrique!

    However, I don't really like the fact you have to scroll down to see the whole discussion.

    Personally, I'd have preferred a discussion box looking like the - now old - clarification area.

    Stéphanie


    Hi Stéphanie,

    The issue of presenting the discussion without scroll bars was evaluated and discarded, as it was considered that a long discussion area would send the answers too far away from the question and "break" the unity of the KudoZ question.

    Regards,
    Enrique


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    Roland Nienerza  Identity Verified

    Local time: 11:12
    English to German
    + ...
    Well, but - Apr 15, 2009

    It is nice to see an idea having coming to - some - fruition.

    I can imagine that the developers might now feel a little weary to add more input to that.

    One will have to get used to the new system - but a few things strike me as not quite plausible.

    1. - I took the term "Answer" so far as a noun. - Now it seems to be interpreted as a verbal imperative - and consequently the other buttons come also as ***a little rude*** imperatives, with an upper case initial - "Post reference" and "Discuss". - I think it would be ***much more appropriate, and polite*** to take these as nouns - and write "Answer" - "Discussion" - "Reference".

    2. - The above order would also be a solution for another mishap. -

    "Discussion", which now includes the former "Clarification" + "Discussion" sections, is ***very much more important, in quality and quantity of entries***, than "Reference". Therefore, even in the present **clumsy wording** of "Post reference", this section should clearly be placed behind "Discussion". - I for one ignored the field "Reference" so far and preferred to enter web links direct into "Answers" or "Discussions". - ***I would have preferred "Reference" being included in "Discussion" right away. - But, as some like to have it, at least it should come after "Discussion". ***

    3.- Although I see the intention of having the "Summary of answers provided" coming now between the question and the discussion field, namely to offer a quick orientation, particularly for those opening questions later on via "KudoZ search", I think that this is not a very practical arrangement, or, as some might say, a little bit like "into the potatoes and back out of them".

    After all, "Discussion" now including the former "Ask for clarification" field, there is an interest to have the ***easy option to look to and fro between the question and the discussion fields***. - It will not be a loss in orientation, if the "Summary of answers provided" is heading the answers' section properly. Even, and precisely those who might come to a question later - will appreciate a clear presentation -

    "Question" - "Discussion" - "Reference" - "Summary of Answers" - "Answers".



    [Edited at 2009-04-15 23:50 GMT]


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    Roland Nienerza  Identity Verified

    Local time: 11:12
    English to German
    + ...
    I am absolutely with Stéphanie - Apr 16, 2009

    Stéphanie Soudais wrote:

    However, I don't really like the fact you have to scroll down to see the whole discussion.

    Personally, I'd have preferred a discussion box looking like the - now old - clarification area.

    Enrique wrote:

    The issue of presenting the discussion without scroll bars was evaluated and discarded, as it was considered that a long discussion area would send the answers too far away from the question and "break" the unity of the KudoZ question.



    I cannot not see the meaning of "breaking the unity of the KudoZ question" by having the whole discussion area visible at once.

    First, the larger or even very large discussions are rather the exception. But when they occur, it is very important then to see at once how much discussion there was, and who has taken part in it.

    It is rather funny to observe that from the time of separating the "discussion" field from the "clarification" field, things did and do not stop to get complicated and blurred.

    Now these fields are lumped together again - but oddly the merged field is put on third rank, after the clumsy "post reference" button. References in themselves are of little use when not adequately commented, and that would make them part of the discussion. the "Post references" is not only ***ill-named*** and ***ill-placed***, it is rather completely superfluous. And now come even now more complications with preselection menus etc.

    All this is exactly leading to "breaking the unity of the KudoZ question" - or, to put it more precisely - to "breaking the access to a question, the discussion of it and the answers given". -

    One has the impression that "discussions" are considered as being an obstacle for the term processing, while in reality they are an important part of it, and the link between the question and the answers.

    Why not to forget about this inflation of ill-conceived inventions since the splitting of the "clarification" and "discussion" fields, and return to the proven, clear and simple structure that existed before - with the one difference to rename the former field "Ask asker for clarifications" to "Discussion".

    [Edited at 2009-04-16 20:09 GMT]


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    Emanuela Galdelli  Identity Verified
    Italy
    Local time: 11:12
    Member (2003)
    French to Italian
    + ...
    Agree with Enrique Apr 17, 2009

    Enrique wrote:

    Stéphanie Soudais wrote:

    Thanks for the merging Enrique!

    However, I don't really like the fact you have to scroll down to see the whole discussion.

    Personally, I'd have preferred a discussion box looking like the - now old - clarification area.

    Stéphanie


    Hi Stéphanie,

    The issue of presenting the discussion without scroll bars was evaluated and discarded, as it was considered that a long discussion area would send the answers too far away from the question and "break" the unity of the KudoZ question.

    Regards,
    Enrique



    Agree, the answers would be too far away from the question, and discussion can also be temporarily hidden to read the answers.

    I like this improvement, as now a constructive discussion, also providing more context by the asker, is easier to read.

    Thanks, Enrique!


    [Edited at 2009-04-17 14:37 GMT]


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    María Eugenia Wachtendorff  Identity Verified
    Chile
    Local time: 07:12
    English to Spanish
    + ...
    How about placing the discussion panel below the answers? Apr 17, 2009

    Enrique wrote:

    Thanks for the merging Enrique!

    However, I don't really like the fact you have to scroll down to see the whole discussion.

    Personally, I'd have preferred a discussion box looking like the - now old - clarification area.

    Stéphanie


    Hi Stéphanie,

    The issue of presenting the discussion without scroll bars was evaluated and discarded, as it was considered that a long discussion area would send the answers too far away from the question and "break" the unity of the KudoZ question.

    Regards,
    Enrique [/quote]


    "See discussion panel below" would be enough, I think


    [Edited at 2009-04-17 15:19 GMT]


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    Nesrin  Identity Verified
    United Kingdom
    Local time: 10:12
    English to Arabic
    + ...
    Reiterating the request Apr 18, 2009

    I'm just reiterating my request (and originally Tomas's) above:

    Nesrin wrote:

    to have notifications of discussion entries sent by default (unless one opts out) to everyone who has contributed to the discussion, as well as everyone who replied to the question (not to everyone who has just subscribed to such questions).


    I believe this is very important, and many contributors to a question may neglect to tick the box even if the discussion is quite relevant. The asker or anyone else may post a clarification which is crucial to the original term, for example (I've come across an exact such case today).
    IF the discussion becomes tedious or irrelevant, it's easy to opt oneself out of the discussion by unchecking the box.


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