| Pages in topic: [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Kudoz abuse? Thread poster: Per Bergvall
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Per Bergvall 
Norway
Local time: 16:35
Member (2002)
English to Norwegian
+ ...
MODERATOR
This morning, I observed a member posting a series of four medical Kudoz entries. I am not a medical tyranslator, and had little to contribute, but to the fourth question, I posted a discussion entry to question the practice of accepting medical translations at six cents per word, then asking better qualified Proz members for free assistance in completing the jobs she had taken from them by undercutting their rates. Clearly, this was not a linguistic issue, so my entry was promptly and justly sq... See more This morning, I observed a member posting a series of four medical Kudoz entries. I am not a medical tyranslator, and had little to contribute, but to the fourth question, I posted a discussion entry to question the practice of accepting medical translations at six cents per word, then asking better qualified Proz members for free assistance in completing the jobs she had taken from them by undercutting their rates. Clearly, this was not a linguistic issue, so my entry was promptly and justly squashed by a vigilant moderator, possibly prompted by the original asker.
The question remains - unless this too is squashed - how much is acceptable in terms of selling cheap translations outside your fields of expertise, then calling on other Proz members for free assistance, the very members whose superior knowledge means they should have got the job in the first place?
The posting member has reaped great benefits from the Kudoz system (Questions asked: 212 Easy / 1353 PRO). That's one thousand, three hundred and fifty-three words for which she got paid, and the pro who knew the answer didn't. Just those terms alone will have paid for her membership here - not to mention the jobs they came with.
I will continue to assist her whenever I can, as we are not in competition in neither language pairs nor specialisations. I do admire those who work in her subject fields, assisting her in completing what might have been their jobs, for no mentionable compensation at all.
So, are we allowing the Kudoz system to work in our disfavour, by helping fellow translators to complete work on subjects in which they have insufficient qualifications? ▲ Collapse
| | | | akots
Greek to English
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Hello!
I am new to ProZ and KudoZ, both as a user and as a member. However, I have been a translator for what seems like an eternity - and I have both asked questions and provided answers at translation fora.
Four specialised term questions sound fishy, I'll warrant you that. On the other hand, even when you have been specialising in a field for a long time it is impossible to know all the terms and seeking help is the only way out. It is what we all do nowadays, and th... See more Hello!
I am new to ProZ and KudoZ, both as a user and as a member. However, I have been a translator for what seems like an eternity - and I have both asked questions and provided answers at translation fora.
Four specialised term questions sound fishy, I'll warrant you that. On the other hand, even when you have been specialising in a field for a long time it is impossible to know all the terms and seeking help is the only way out. It is what we all do nowadays, and that is why I would be the last to criticize this course of action.
I think that it is above all a question of personal and professional ethics. Before posting, do we do the research we should? Do we exhaust all our resources or simply look for the easy way out? Do we undertake projects quoting low, thinking that we'll manage because we have KudoZ to fall back to, or do we stick to what we know we do best, asking for help when we reach a blank?
These are difficult times - and someone may decide to venture to fields unknown by mere necessity. Still, we are all judged by the quality of our translations. And if we are unfamiliar with a topic, even getting 60% of all difficult terms right won't save the day. Eventually, amateurism will show through, so in the long run it can cost you job opportunities... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Thayenga
Germany
Local time: 16:35
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
When the job consists of 10,000 or 20,000 words, asking 4 Kudoz questions is very much acceptable.
IMHO abuse could be suspected if there are, let's say 50 words to be translated and 4 or more questions are being asked.
Not knowing which might be the case, I still agree on one thing, one should only accept translations one can do with a minimum of colleagues' support.
In any case, I would not take on an assignment if I'm not familiar with its field and/or ... See more When the job consists of 10,000 or 20,000 words, asking 4 Kudoz questions is very much acceptable.
IMHO abuse could be suspected if there are, let's say 50 words to be translated and 4 or more questions are being asked.
Not knowing which might be the case, I still agree on one thing, one should only accept translations one can do with a minimum of colleagues' support.
In any case, I would not take on an assignment if I'm not familiar with its field and/or terminology.
Regards
Thayenga ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kevin Fulton
United States
Local time: 10:35
German to English
| An old problem | Mar 2, 2010 |
This problem is as old as Proz. People take jobs for which they are underqualified, then ask for extensive assistance. Some people seem to think that Kudoz queries are the equivalent of research.
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Rob Grayson
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:35
French to English
| A worse problem | Mar 2, 2010 |
I believe the problem has become/is becoming worse than previous posts suggest. It is not limited to askers posting questions on specialised terminology with which they ought to be familiar before accepting jobs; far from it. There are increasingly frequent questions posted (and as "Pro" questions to boot) on the most basic of words and expressions with which any speaker of the source language ought to be familiar, let alone any half-competent translator. I could point you to half a dozen such q... See more I believe the problem has become/is becoming worse than previous posts suggest. It is not limited to askers posting questions on specialised terminology with which they ought to be familiar before accepting jobs; far from it. There are increasingly frequent questions posted (and as "Pro" questions to boot) on the most basic of words and expressions with which any speaker of the source language ought to be familiar, let alone any half-competent translator. I could point you to half a dozen such questions that have been posted in my language pair today. One can only conclude that certain individuals are marketing their services as professional translators while lacking the most basic understanding of the language(s) with which they are working. Note that those concerned are often, but by no means exclusively, translating into a non-native language.
What is equally striking is the number of answers and the amount of discussion that is often triggered by such shockingly easy questions. If one dares to suggest that the question is rather easy, the riposte often comes back that the question would not have generated so much response if it were so easy. Could it instead be the case that most of those responding are themselves only capable of working at the most basic level?
This dumbing-down process, as measured by the incidence of embarrassingly easy KudoZ questions, seems to have accelerated rapidly in the last year.
Rob ▲ Collapse
| | | | DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
| no prob at all | Mar 2, 2010 |
First, the ProZ provides such legal possibility - why not use it?
Second, only proud and silly people ask no questions and say they know everything.
Third, usually I ask questions to make clear some points I encountered - not only jobs/ specialization. Though I try not ab/ mis/ overuse it)
Fourth, I need neither jobs, nor score from ProZ. Sure, I used to answer questions to my best knowledge and understanding, but I prefer to communicate with colleagues and learn something new.... See more First, the ProZ provides such legal possibility - why not use it?
Second, only proud and silly people ask no questions and say they know everything.
Third, usually I ask questions to make clear some points I encountered - not only jobs/ specialization. Though I try not ab/ mis/ overuse it)
Fourth, I need neither jobs, nor score from ProZ. Sure, I used to answer questions to my best knowledge and understanding, but I prefer to communicate with colleagues and learn something new.
Fifth, if someone is under-qualified for the accepted job then he's gonna get into troubles even without KudoZ.
That's it.
So, in my eyes KudoZ looks OK) It could have been much better yet it's limited by its users...HF
[Edited at 2010-03-02 16:23 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ildiko Santana
United States
Local time: 07:35
Member (2002)
Hungarian to English
+ ...
MODERATOR | terminology & research | Mar 2, 2010 |
Kevin Fulton wrote:
Some people seem to think that Kudoz queries are the equivalent of research.
I agree with Kevin that this is basically a form of online research, only that there is an added benefit of having others (voluntarily) do the research for us... I do not believe, however, that this method qualifies as abuse. The solutions provided by helpful ProZ users also benefit the entire community not just the asker.
True, four terminology questions asked at once could seem a little excessive if the document at hand is, say, one page. But even then, there could be a perfectly acceptable justification. It's happened to me a couple of times that the client (who knows very well that I have no medical background) contacted me with a job, claiming that it was 'just another invoice or insurance claim', which I had done by the dozen in the past. So, I accepted the job, only to find out upon closer examination that it was an invoice for medical services provided in a hospital or a doctor's note attached to a claim, containing a handful of medical terms. Would you have sent back these jobs, saying "Pardon me but there are these terms I am not familiar with so I have to return the project"? Or would you have done your own research, possibly turning to the KudoZ system as well?
Cheers,
Ildiko'
[Edited at 2010-03-03 07:26 GMT]
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I feel that more people should hit that 'vote non-pro' button more often otherwise what's the point of it being there?
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| Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | Brian Young
United States
Local time: 07:35
Danish to English
| the race for points | Mar 2, 2010 |
I occasionally answer kudoz questions, but only if I have the answer at my fingertips, i.e. that I quite simply know the answer. If I feel that I have to look things up then I think that the asker should do that instead. I never paste in sources or references, or endless URL's. That seems to be a tactic used by some people who would not be able to answer any question on their own. It is an obvious race for points, and the results of these answers, that consist almost entirely of web references, ... See more I occasionally answer kudoz questions, but only if I have the answer at my fingertips, i.e. that I quite simply know the answer. If I feel that I have to look things up then I think that the asker should do that instead. I never paste in sources or references, or endless URL's. That seems to be a tactic used by some people who would not be able to answer any question on their own. It is an obvious race for points, and the results of these answers, that consist almost entirely of web references, are often of marginal use, and sometimes simply incorrect.
I think that the point system should be dropped entirely. Then we could help each other when we feel it is reasonable, and not as part of the points rat race. ▲ Collapse
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Brian Young wrote:
I never paste in sources or references, or endless URL's. That seems to be a tactic used by some people who would not be able to answer any question on their own. It is an obvious race for points, and the results of these answers, that consist almost entirely of web references, are often of marginal use, and sometimes simply incorrect.
Of marginal use, indeed. Especially if these "web references" consist of a page of "evidence" that the proposed target term is actually used in the target language and there is no attempt to demonstrate that the proposed target term is actually a good translation of the source term. This is a very bad habit started several years ago and eagerly copied by your point hunters.
| | | | David Wright
Austria
Local time: 16:35
German to English
+ ...
| I think I agree with Brian | Mar 2, 2010 |
The points system is irrelecvant, at least for me. I happen to have a certain amount of expertise in something I love, language, and am happy to pass it on for the pleasure of doing so. Mind you, one does sometimes wonder about some questions asked!!
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Answering questions to win points seems a waste of time -- what can you do with them?
I'm becoming less keen to answer questions, especially from those who seek answers to 'lists' and those who ask frequently. Why do somebody else's job when they are obviously ignorant or lazy?
| | | | Claire Cox
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:35
French to English
+ ...
| Not pointless | Mar 2, 2010 |
Surely the point of KudoZ is that they improve your visibility in search results, so if a client is searching for a translator in your specialised field, the translators with most points will come up first - sounds fair enough to me.
As for abuse of the system, I know there are cases where certain less scrupulous translators seem to systematically post the whole of a translation via KudoZ and I just stop answering or even reading the queries in such cases. However, as Ildiko says, t... See more Surely the point of KudoZ is that they improve your visibility in search results, so if a client is searching for a translator in your specialised field, the translators with most points will come up first - sounds fair enough to me.
As for abuse of the system, I know there are cases where certain less scrupulous translators seem to systematically post the whole of a translation via KudoZ and I just stop answering or even reading the queries in such cases. However, as Ildiko says, there are occasions when you've accepted a project in your field, say a plant specification and suddenly find that it contains a whole section on say, civil engineering, or computers, about which you know nothing, even if the majority of the text is well within your comfort zone.
Quality will out, though, in the long run. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Per Bergvall
Norway
Local time: 16:35
Member (2002)
English to Norwegian
+ ...
MODERATOR TOPIC STARTER | If there is a surprise in the job... | Mar 2, 2010 |
... surely one solution would be to outsource it to a colleague? The alternative of posting the surprise as a Kudoz queston is an obvious course of action, but where should it stop?
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