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Politeness in KudoZ? (Received rude note after posting question)
Thread poster: trad500
trad500
Local time: 00:04
English to French
Dec 30, 2003

"Please show a little regard for the fact that you are asking others to do unpaid work for you and actually make it easier for us by giving some context!"

Here is what I received after having posted a question today. I thought this website was about helping fellow translators and sharing information. Unfortunaltely, the comments found is this website are becoming more and more judgemental and aggressive.
I answered questions myself many times (without getting paid!!)

Today, I'm glad I'm not a member and am not paying to be insulted in such a way...


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Russell Jones  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:04
Member (2004)
Italian to English
Pot calling the kettle black [Well, the title of your post is slightly *negative*.] Dec 30, 2003

The comment you received was rude (though possibly not really intended to be so).
Unfortunately, your treatment of another respondent (who even took your side on this matter), declining her perfectly legitimate, researched and helpful suggestion without comment, is surely no better.
Short responses in print can often provoke fierce reactions - I've been equally guilty myself. I hope ProZ has taught me to give the benefit of the doubt, until getting to know someone a little better.


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 19:04
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
Nobody deserves to be insulted Dec 30, 2003

Marie Leca wrote:
Today, I'm glad I'm not a member and am not paying to be insulted in such a way...


Dear Mary
You're right, the KudoZ section is there to enable everyone to ask and receive help.
You'll find all sort of "helps", coming from all sort of people, as there's all sort of people in the world.
There are rules for KudoZ, and when they are not respected you can contact the moderator(s) of that pair, who will remind the rules to the person who, for instance, insults an asker.

It happens that it takes a while to newcomers to understand what KudoZ are about. It also happens that some askers abuse and really expect the others to do their job. We have to find a balanced point in between.

In the same way that you don't deserve such a message, the whole site doesn't deserve to be labelled as if everyone did insult the others.


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Andrea Ali  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 20:04
Member (2003)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Hi, Marie! Dec 30, 2003

Marie Leca wrote:

"Please show a little regard for the fact that you are asking others to do unpaid work for you and actually make it easier for us by giving some context!"

Here is what I received after having posted a question today. I thought this website was about helping fellow translators and sharing information. Unfortunaltely, the comments found is this website are becoming more and more judgemental and aggressive.
I answered questions myself many times (without getting paid!!)

Today, I'm glad I'm not a member and am not paying to be insulted in such a way...


I understand you do not feel comfortable with such a comment.
I have not seen the question and I do not know who made the comment (maybe I would do away with some of the words) but usually little or no context is provided and that does not help neither the asker nor the answerer.

But I wanted to let you know that there are excellent pros and people around here. Do not let this incident prevent you from getting to know wonderful human beings, getting help or helping others.

I have been here for over a year now and am really happy because apart from the jobs, I made very good friends and had the chance to meet wonderful people who are ready to help in any way (job and life), any time.

Just that!

Happy New Year!!!

Andrea


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El Trujaman
English to Spanish
+ ...
I agree 100% Dec 30, 2003

People normally ask questions with the best of intentions and not with the aim of taking advantage of other colleague's knowledge, as some -and fortunately not many- would think.

A few weeks ago, when I kindly asked if someone could proofread my translation of a few lines (no big deal, actually) I got a similar response:

"If you want professional services on this scale you should pay a suitably qualified colleague"

I've always been happy to answer other people's questions and expect other members to do the same for me (I guess that's the point of the Q/A forum, isn't it?). So, if someone isn't confortable with a question, why not just simply ignore it and spare the offensive remarks?


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Roomy Naqvy  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 04:34
English to Hindi
+ ...
You are right, Marie Dec 30, 2003

Dear Marie,

Sadly, there will always be some people who would want to spoil the party. Despite the best efforts of people, there will always be bad eggs. Please report the entire incident privately to any one of the Moderators. But please do believe that if there are a handful of *whacky* people who might have joined ProZ, there are also hundreds, and possibly thousands, of very warm and friendly members as well.

Do let me know if I can help you,

Best wishes,

Roomy


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trad500
Local time: 00:04
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you all! Dec 30, 2003

Thank you all for your comments.

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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 19:04
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
For Christian Dec 30, 2003

Christian Arlt wrote:
A few weeks ago, when I kindly asked if someone could proofread my translation of a few lines (no big deal, actually) I got a similar response:
"If you want professional services on this scale you should pay a suitably qualified colleague"


You didn't deserve such an answer, but KudoZ are not the right place for such a service. KudoZ are just for terminology help. But you could have asked in a forum (not giving the text, just asking).
There's also a proofreading group in yahoo, owned by a ProZ member (I wonder if I'm allowed to give the contact details here), and its purpose is exactly that one.

So, if someone isn't confortable with a question, why not just simply ignore it and spare the offensive remarks?


Agree.


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Andrea Ali  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 20:04
Member (2003)
English to Spanish
+ ...
I did not know Dec 30, 2003

Claudia Iglesias wrote:
...
There's also a proofreading group in yahoo, owned by a ProZ member (I wonder if I'm allowed to give the contact details here), and its purpose is exactly that one.
...


Claudia, could you please email me the info? It sounds great!

Cheers,
Andrea


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El Trujaman
English to Spanish
+ ...
Thank you! Dec 30, 2003

Claudia, could you email the information to me as well?
Thank you again.

Claudia Iglesias wrote:

Christian Arlt wrote:
A few weeks ago, when I kindly asked if someone could proofread my translation of a few lines (no big deal, actually) I got a similar response:
"If you want professional services on this scale you should pay a suitably qualified colleague"


You didn't deserve such an answer, but KudoZ are not the right place for such a service. KudoZ are just for terminology help. But you could have asked in a forum (not giving the text, just asking).
There's also a proofreading group in yahoo, owned by a ProZ member (I wonder if I'm allowed to give the contact details here), and its purpose is exactly that one.

So, if someone isn't confortable with a question, why not just simply ignore it and spare the offensive remarks?


Agree.


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Glyn Haggett  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:04
German to English
Well said, Marie Dec 30, 2003

Marie, I am so glad you have raised this issue, since exactly the same thought came to my mind while I was looking through the questions and answers this morning and came across one particularly glaring case of one answerer sneering at another's suggestion. I fear the major problem is that, although our art is not a precise one (there are after all any number of different yet legitimate translations for any piece of text), it does seem to attract more than its fair share of those apparently set upon imposing their own beliefs and standards upon others. I have sometimes been astounded by the comments made by users of the site in response to suggested translations offered by others; similarly, I have sometimes been surprised by which translation has been awarded the ProZ points. Quite frankly, the ProZ points are of no real consequence to me; I do feel, however, that this site provides a great opportunity to enhance the standing of our profession by helping to ensure that the quality of the work produced by all of us is as high as possible. Furthermore, the system also provides us with the opportunity to keep in touch with developments in the field; the value of that should not be understated. Good luck and here's hoping you don't encounter similar problems in the future!

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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 19:04
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
I found the info Dec 30, 2003

Sonja is its owner/moderator

http://www.proz.com/topic/16438


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cjohnstone  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 01:04
English to French
+ ...
the website is about helping unpaid, je persiste et signe, amicalement Catherine Dec 30, 2003

Marie Leca wrote:

"Please show a little regard for the fact that you are asking others to do unpaid work for you and actually make it easier for us by giving some context!"

Here is what I received after having posted a question today. I thought this website was about helping fellow translators and sharing information. Unfortunaltely, the comments found is this website are becoming more and more judgemental and aggressive.
I answered questions myself many times (without getting paid!!)

Today, I'm glad I'm not a member and am not paying to be insulted in such a way...


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Jane Lamb-Ruiz  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
always be informative and nice to first posters Dec 30, 2003

I have noticed that sometimes people post quite innocently though beyond the bounds of the question area. And instead of just answering them nicely the first and second time, people JUMP on them like intruders.

It's ridiculous and has to stop. It's obvious to those who answer all the time when someone is new. Let's be nice to newcomers and people who might not know all the rules instead of biting them.

Great discussion. Great comments.

Cheers


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Levan Namoradze  Identity Verified
Georgia
Local time: 03:04
Member (2005)
English to Georgian
+ ...
Take that easy people... Dec 30, 2003

People use to be different. I am non-paying member just for several days, but already was offended for 2-3 times. Never mind. I do not care really. I would continue helping people (if I could) free of any charge, when that concerns the certain phrases.

Please, do not consider this like a moral teaching!

We are all translators from over the world and I know that I should assist any of my colleagues. I am not an angel. I just want to create a good environment.

And by the way: pardon me for my poor English!

Sincerely Yours,

Iber


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