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| User | Thread poster: Helen Shiner Proposal that people who post questions via the Kudoz system be obliged to provide context |
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Helen Shiner 
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:23
 Partial member (2008)
German to English
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I would like to propose that people who post questions via the Kudoz system are obliged to provide context at the moment of posting. In other words that questions should not be accepted UNLESS context is provided. Many of us are increasingly having to start responses to questions by asking for (completely omitted) context. Additional context could then always be provided later if further information is needed.
There is NEVER no context available; it just seems that an increasing number of translators do not think it necessary to provide it or seem incapable of understanding what it is.
I note that in the current set-up the box where one MIGHT provide context is a) not obligatory and b) does not even mention the word 'context':
"Explanation / More about term (Required)
Consider entering as much information as possible for the term. Have in mind that part of the text or statement that surrounds the term you need help with will help colleagues to determine its meaning. Useful information includes type of document/situation in which the term appears, country and dialect, URLs, translations you are considering, etc. See a more detailed description here."
Context to be provided, in my opinion, should include the entire sentence in which the term queried appears (doctored, if necessary, for reasons of confidentiality). Where the term is a bullet-point, for instance, some indication should be given as to how this fits in with the surrounding text. Many Askers also fail to provide information about what kind of document the term in question appears in or the intended audience. It should be perfectly possible to provide this information in terms which do not contravene confidentiality.
I would be very interested to hear from my peers on this subject - with further suggestions or objections. If there is sufficient support , I will submit this as a suggestion to the powers that be.
What do you think?
[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2010-12-01 18:35 GMT]
[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2010-12-01 18:36 GMT]
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Katalin Horvath McClure
United States
Local time: 10:23
  Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
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Enrique
Argentina
Local time: 11:23
Member (2006)
SITE STAFF | | The field for "Explanation / More about term" is required | Dec 1, 2010 |
Helen Shiner wrote:
I would like to propose that people who post questions via the Kudoz system are obliged to provide context at the moment of posting. In other words that questions should not be accepted UNLESS context is provided. Many of us are increasingly having to start responses to questions by asking for (completely omitted) context. Additional context could then always be provided later if further information is needed.
There is NEVER no context available; it just seems that an increasing number of translators do not think it necessary to provide it or seem incapable of understanding what it is.
I note that in the current set-up the box where one MIGHT provide context is a) not obligatory and b) does not even mention the word 'context':
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The field for "Explanation / More about term" is required, and if you submit a question without entering information in this field you get an error message:
Of course you can fool the computers handling the question by entering irrelevant information in that field. There is no way for a program to decide if what was provided in the field was good and enough context or not.
The fact that the word "context" is not mentioned should not be so bad since the askers are requested to enter what amounts to the proper context for the question, and they are provided a link to a very clear FAQ if they need further clarifications on this issue.
Regards,
Enrique
PS: There is a typo in the error message, our developers already received a request to fix it.
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Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:23
Partial member (2008)
German to English
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TOPIC STARTER |
I would request that you do listen to what users of the site say in this regard. The system functions badly at the moment. If this box must be filled in, then I would suggest a separate box with an obligation to provide context as discussed. If you value the Kudoz facility, I would hope you would like to ensure its useability and relevance to future searchers of terminology.
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Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:23
Partial member (2008)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER |
Thank you for posting those links. I would rather not give up before I start just because other conversations have not resulted in any changes.
I would not myself favour a button, as proposed, since it would not indicate the reason or specific nature of the request for context, particularly if it meant that peers could hold up a question. That seems too personal an intervention to me.
A box requiring the full sentence in which a term appears, for instance, as one posts would surely result in this information being provided more often than is now the case.
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Enrique
Argentina
Local time: 11:23
Member (2006)
SITE STAFF | | This would be not in line with KudoZ' objective | Dec 1, 2010 |
The current box is enough for context, adding another box would not improve the system.
Computers can't identify if the content of a field is good, proper context, so automatic filtering of questions would not be possible.
Requesting human approval of each posted question would be impractical (given the amount of questions asked) and it would be out of line with normal (not GBK) KudoZ' main objective: to provide help to the asker.
Allowing users to block a question until the context provided is deemed acceptable by someone else would also be out of line with this objective.
Regards,
Enrique
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Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:23
Partial member (2008)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER |
I am afraid I do not agree with that it would not improve things. In fact, I think it would improve things enormously. This is not a question of how much space there is in the present box, it is about requiring people to provide information. Whilst there may still be people incapable of providing that information properly, the percentage who do would rise considerably, thus stopping the need to constantly ask.
I have just had a situation where my asking for context (extremely politely) has resulted in my comment being removed because the "Asker felt he was being challenged", for goodness sake. Do we want to encourage answerers to assist askers, or not?
I would not advocate human intervention; this should be automated.
Your argument that the system cannot tell whether information provided is valid is anyway the situation currently, so I do not see that as an obstacle or reason not to go ahead.
This issue causes so much unpleasantness, it really is about time Proz.com did something about it.
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Richardson Lisa
France
Local time: 16:23
Member (2009)
French to English
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Hi Helen
I just noticed this thread and thought I'd add my view for what it's worth. Whilst I completely agree that posting a kudoz question without context makes it virtually impossible to give a fully adapted and appropriate answer, the problem lies in confidentality rather than unwillingness. I for one, when posting on kudoz do not feel comfortable about revealing large chunks of a client's text, even when some of these texts are already visible on the net etc. I try to give context without doing this,but perhaps my efforts are unsuccessful?
I don't post kudoz questions very often, and it is rarely for meaning but rather for inspiration. I'm often looking for a better way of putting it , something that I haven't thought of etc...This makes it a very valuable and inspirational tool in my view. I don't always use the answers given exactly as they are, but change and adapt them slightly in view of the text that only I can see in it's entirety.
I'm sure Im not alone in this?
By the way, please accept my apologises for not answering you on my last kudoz as I had to leave urgently for England due to a death in the family.On my return(if it stops snowing here) I will endeavour to close the question.
It's all food for thought though
kind regards
Lisa
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Christel Zipfel
Partial member
Italian to German
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| | I have actually stopped to ask for more context | Dec 1, 2010 |
whilst before I did from time to time, although reluctantly.
Askers that don't provide sufficient context should be left alone or be content with what they get under these circumstances and they should be made well aware of this.
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Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:23
Partial member (2008)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER |
Firstly, I am sorry to hear of your bereavement and I hope you get back home safely. On the matter of context, as I have said, confidentiality can be addressed without the provision of context being impeded. I really doubt that is the main reason in the majority of cases for its lack. Some askers do say that this is their particular reason (we all have the same problem, after all) but many askers clearly demonstrate their lack of understanding and the rushed, careless nature of their questions. Unfortunately, not everyone is as well-intentioned as you.
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Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:23
Partial member (2008)
German to English
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TOPIC STARTER |
Yes, it does look more and more as if the better contributors to Kudoz will withdraw their assistance. I wish Proz.com would appreciate that the quality of the service will suffer as a result.
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Jessica Noyes
United States
Local time: 10:23
Member
Spanish to English
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| | Laissez-faire | Dec 1, 2010 |
I prefer to be part of a ProZ community that allows for differences in approach. If dues-paying members want to ask a question without sufficient context, even after being warned by the little notice on the site, I think that should be OK. He or she will not get the best possible answers, and many of us may choose to ignore the question -- either because we need more context to answer, or simply because we are annoyed -- but I do believe that we should operate somewhat as a federation of equals, especially when no one, except the asker, is really harmed.
(Personally I have several people in my pairs whose questions I choose not to look at, and I am glad to be able to filter people based on the kinds of questions I wish to respond to.)
The real harm to the group comes from those who choose wrong answers and then add them to the Kudoz term base; this, however is not a function (only) of lack of context but rather of the fact that we are all...human, all too human.
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Kim Metzger
Mexico
Local time: 09:23
German to English
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Asking a question without taking the trouble to spell out decent context is pointless. It's as simple as that.
Garbage In, Garbage Out (abbreviated to GIGO, coined as a pun on the phrase First-In, First-Out) is a phrase in the field of computer science or information and communication technology. It is used primarily to call attention to the fact that computers will unquestioningly process the most nonsensical of input data (garbage in) and produce nonsensical output (garbage out). It was most popular in the early days of computing, but applies even more today, when powerful computers can spew out mountains of erroneous information in a short time. The actual term "Garbage in, garbage out", coined as a teaching mantra by George Fuechsel, an IBM 305 RAMAC technician/instructor in New York, was soon contracted to the acronym "GIGO".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_In,_Garbage_Out
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Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:23
Partial member (2008)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER |
Whilst I can quite understand a laissez-faire attitude, and Proz.com's stance increasingly pushes me towards it, I can't help but feeling it is a great shame and a wasted opportunity. Many of us spend a great deal of time trying to assist people via Kudoz and gain a great deal from it when we are stuck, too. But you can only lead a horse to water ....
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Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:23
Partial member (2008)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER |
I should also say that sometimes it is obvious what sort of response one will get from repeated Kudoz questioners and one learns to avoid them. However, this is not always the case and people demonstrate a lot of patience, giving askers the benefit of the doubt only to find their time has been wasted. I know I am not the only one to feel frustrated - there would not have been so many discussions on this topic were that not the case.
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