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declining an answer
Thread poster: Crystal Samples

Crystal Samples  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:29
French to English
+ ...
Sep 24, 2004

I was under the impression that it was allowed to decline all kudoz answers to a question and award no points if you find none of them helpful . But someone has suggested to me that this "is not done". That I should award points for the effort that it took them to look for the answer, even if I didn't use the answer. Is this the general practice? For one question today, I received a few negative (nasty) comments for declining an answer and not rewarding any points. I was wondering if I actually deserved this negative feedback, or if these answerers were just being Kudoz point-grabbing babies.

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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 00:29
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
Hello sindee21 Sep 24, 2004

When you grade you can access the following chart

When deciding how many points to award, please consider this scale as a guideline:

4: Answer was acceptable, explanation was good, reference was provided (or not needed)
3: Answer was acceptable, explanation was good, but reference was lacking
2: Answer was acceptable
1: Answer was somewhat helpful


Usually we suppose that the asker is the one who knows what he needs, and that he's fair when he has to chose.
The asker can decide to decline all the answers he got, ha can also decide to grade at least with one KudoZ point the person who spent some time trying to answer (but didn't give the right answer).

I had a look at your questions and could see in which one you got these comments. The problem is not that you can't decline. The problem is that the only answer you had received was right and had several agrees. In this case it really seems unfair to decline it. I can't see which reason you had given, but apparently you had found the answer elsewhere. Does it make it less useful or wronger?

In this particular case I agree with the colleagues. The answer was correct, it deserved some points, even if you don't use it. But you're entitled to decide to decline too.

Claudia (mod in Fr-Sp KudoZ)


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Alejandra Villarroel  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 00:29
English to Spanish
+ ...
Did you just close the question? Sep 24, 2004

Or did justify your decision? You know, good manners -something *classy* like "Thanks everyone for the effort"- can make a whole world of a difference!



sindee21 wrote:

I was under the impression that it was allowed to decline all kudoz answers to a question and award no points if you find none of them helpful . But someone has suggested to me that this "is not done". That I should award points for the effort that it took them to look for the answer, even if I didn't use the answer. Is this the general practice? For one question today, I received a few negative (nasty) comments for declining an answer and not rewarding any points. I was wondering if I actually deserved this negative feedback, or if these answerers were just being Kudoz point-grabbing babies.


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Narasimhan Raghavan  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:59
English to Tamil
+ ...
I agree with Claudia and Alejandra Sep 24, 2004

While declining you will have to give good reasons for your action. This is not dictated by any rules but is just governed by good manners. I see that have declined more than once. One of the reasons was "answer found elsewhere". You didn't elaborate whether it was the same answer or different. Even in the latter case you could have given your version in your
note itself and it might have been useful to others browsing the answers at a later date. There is also the reason "other". You cannot be more laconic than that.

All this will only lead to your being avoided by others (one of your questions remains unanswered from Sep 8th) and it creates a bad feeling. At least in your own interest you should be more positive. Otherwise you cannot avoid negative feedbacks. And that you are amazed by them amazes me. What
else did you expect?

Regards,
N.Raghavan"


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Marijke Singer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:29
Dutch to English
+ ...
Declining Sep 24, 2004

We are supposed to be a helping community. It is perfectly acceptable to decline answers but the way in which you do it is what matters. Providing the answer that you did use is a good habit to get into. Sometimes the answer to your query may be in several replies offered and you will decide to use a combination. This is difficult to grade but you should try. Also answers provided may help you in your research and therefore the answers are also useful. Although we award points, I don't think this is a competition and therefore we should be polite and reasonable when dealing with our fellow translators. I always think it is fantastic when people reply and try to help!

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Monika Coulson  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:29
Member (2001)
English to Albanian
+ ...
Agree with the above opinions Sep 24, 2004

Marijke Singer wrote:
Although we award points, I don't think this is a competition and therefore we should be polite and reasonable when dealing with our fellow translators. I always think it is fantastic when people reply and try to help!


Totally agree. Even if you did not use any of the answers at this time, I am sure that they are helpful in some ways. And I am sure that at least one of the answers was probably a little bit more helpful than the others. Giving at least one point is a good way to thank the member who took time from their work to answer your question. I have never seen a "stupid" answer so far, so every suggestion counts and helps, even though it might not be directly.

I personally would never decline anyone's answer, unless he/she wrote deliberately something mean or offending, which has nothing to do with the question.

I am not talking about your case, but in my personal opinion, if someone keeps declining colleague's answers, soon this person might not get much help from others.

Monika

[Edited at 2004-09-24 06:34]


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xxxCMJ_Trans
Local time: 06:29
French to English
+ ...
A word of explanation Sep 24, 2004

I have recently "just-closed" the odd question and would like to tell you why. Despite much appreciating the contributions from other translators, in those cases I was unable to single out one answer that deserved the points more than the others and - in any case - had used NONE of them in the end: either I had found out from the client what the term really meant, or I had found my own salvation. Even when you take a combination of answers, it is still hard to decide which one to favour. So "just closing" is the only option, especially since you know that other people may look at these answers in times to come and, not knowing the background, could make incorrect decisions. People are rather like sheep, you know, and tend to think that if one person has used an answer, then it is gospel from there on in - you only have to look at the way the "agrees" pile up as soon as an answer seems to have been favoured by the first person to react!
So, there are two sides to every coin. Please remember that and not be too judgmental. Sometimes professional ethics preclude choosing an answer that is little more than "the least of all evils"


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Fernando Toledo  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:29
German to Spanish
My point of view, the bad boy asking for the points Sep 24, 2004

sindee21 wrote:

I was under the impression that it was allowed to decline all kudoz answers to a question and award no points if you find none of them helpful


1. My response was correct and the only one (with 2 agrees)
If you found it too in other place is not the point.
After your declination, I just asked why you do not give me points for my answer, then you give me 2 points with the comment Happy now? ;(

well...you know, we grabbing babies are never satisfied



. But someone has suggested to me that this "is not done". That I should award points for the effort that it took them to look for the answer, even if I didn't use the answer.


Are you saying my answer was not correct?
your comment was you find it in other place
If my answer is no t O.K., tell me please I have to advise Mr. Routledge to change this entry in the best technical dic EN>ES

Is this the general practice? For one question today, I received a few negative (nasty) comments for declining an answer and not rewarding any points. I was wondering if I actually deserved this negative feedback, or if these answerers were just being Kudoz point-grabbing babies.


Speaking about insulting...are you telling that we are grabbing babies?

Marijke wrote
We are supposed to be a helping community. It is perfectly acceptable to decline answers but the way in which you do it is what matters


This was/is the problem about you, it seems you make some friends in the past...

the question:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/818255

1. My response was correct and the only one (with 2 agrees)
2. I do not insult
3. I do NOT need points in a matter (Nautic) where I'll never work.
4. I/we need positive feedback, I/we are not machines, to continue helping
5. I had expected a "I'm sorry, I have forget to thank you" and not a "Are you happy now?"

and your private response:
thanks for your "help", but insulting and whining to the
asker is not the best way to get points.


Michelle wrote
I know I post questions looking for much more than a simple dictionary answer.


It was a question without context and , I repeat, my response was O.K. the reason she found it too ;D

I have not open this forum
She is the one insulting (grabbing babies)
I have recibe some mails telling me that they do not answer questions from this person anymore, so it is not the first time.
and you are defending her arguments?
and say nothing about his insult?
Well...you have to know, and like as Raghavan says:

...And that you are amazed by them amazes me. What else did you expect?



A furious grabbing baby








[Edited at 2004-09-24 10:22]

[Edited at 2004-09-24 10:28]

[Edited at 2004-09-24 12:02]

[Edited at 2004-09-24 15:52]


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Fernando Toledo  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:29
German to Spanish
Once more... Sep 24, 2004

..in this moment she closed another question:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/807639

The asker has closed this question without grading.
Reason: Other

After this forum how can you still act like this?.....Without a Thank you.


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Marijke Singer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:29
Dutch to English
+ ...
Perfectly OK not to award points Sep 24, 2004

CMJ_Trans wrote:

I have recently "just-closed" the odd question and would like to tell you why. Despite much appreciating the contributions from other translators, in those cases I was unable to single out one answer that deserved the points more than the others and - in any case - had used NONE of them in the end: either I had found out from the client what the term really meant, or I had found my own salvation. Even when you take a combination of answers, it is still hard to decide which one to favour. So "just closing" is the only option, especially since you know that other people may look at these answers in times to come and, not knowing the background, could make incorrect decisions. People are rather like sheep, you know, and tend to think that if one person has used an answer, then it is gospel from there on in - you only have to look at the way the "agrees" pile up as soon as an answer seems to have been favoured by the first person to react!
So, there are two sides to every coin. Please remember that and not be too judgmental. Sometimes professional ethics preclude choosing an answer that is little more than "the least of all evils"


I think that it is perfectly OK not to give points as in the examples you give but I think that the problem is that in the cases being discussed the asker was not very 'nice'. She could have added a 'not what I wanted but thanks anyway, I decided to use ...'. As Toledo also said, the answers should have been deemed correct at least. Based on the provided context, the suggestions were right. I just had a look and I do translate maritime documents. Without more context, though, I cannot say whether the suggestions made would be right in all cases.


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Michele Johnson  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:29
German to English
+ ...
Harassing the asker forbidden Sep 24, 2004

If anything is in "bad taste," it's harassing an asker about his/her decision. Let me remind us all (myself included) about the kudoz rules:

3.4 - Commenting to an asker regarding his/her decision to post a certain question, to grade a certain way, or to make a certain glossary entry, is strictly forbidden.

So who has the right to question how sindee21 graded? None of the answers were helpful to her; she declined. That's it! It may not have been my way of doing it, but who are we to question? Maybe she was in a huge rush/under immense pressure. It's like getting angry because someone awards points to someone else and then doesn't apologize to you (or someone dares to disagree with your kudoz suggestion).

toledo wrote:
1. My response was correct and the only one (with 2 agrees)
...
Are you saying my answer was not correct?
Tell me please I have to advise Mr. Routledge to change this entry in the best technical dic EN>ES


This is largely irrelevant, isn't it? It's up to the *asker* to decide if your suggestion fits her context. It's up to the asker to decide what's right. I know I post questions looking for much more than a simple dictionary answer. Did you give any other kinds of references to back up your answer? Maybe a text/internet site where the phrase is used as you describe it?

If you feel there is truly abuse (on either side), then by all means immediately report it to a moderator.


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lien
Netherlands
Local time: 06:29
English to French
+ ...
I agree Sep 24, 2004

Narasimhan Raghavan wrote:

You didn't elaborate whether it was the same answer or different. Even in the latter case you could have given your version in your note itself and it might have been useful to others browsing the answers at a later date.



I agree with the all answer, but I quote the most important. You seem to have no clue what proz is about.

You should have thanked people for taking the time to answer to you and the others to give comments.

The answer was right, no reason at all not to give the points.

Even in the case where the answer was not right and you found the answer somewhere else, you should have wrote it, for the futur people who would search the term.

What do you think ? You just come in, ask, and go ? And you have the nerve to be offended on top of that !


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Narasimhan Raghavan  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:59
English to Tamil
+ ...
No one disputes the right of the asker to decline answers Sep 25, 2004

Nor is it correct on the part of an aggrieved answerer to send private emails to the asker. Having said that, let us have a perspective of the whole question. The original poster wondered whether she has by default to give out points. No, not at all. But this opened up opportunities to others to pass comments about the way she went about declining the answers. The point some of us were trying to make was that politeness goes a long way in getting things done. Lack of it results in getting ignored after some time.

It is significant that the original poster has not posted anything further. I hope that it is because of some introspection on her part.

Thus there are two aspects to this question. One is the declining act itself. There can be no two opinions about it. One can and even should decline in face of unsatisfactory answers. Other is politeness. This is dictated not by any formal rules but only by consideration of good manners. This is essential in securing any future help. Just a matter of self interest.

Regards,
N.Raghavan

[Edited at 2004-09-25 17:11]


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