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Abusing Kudoz...
Thread poster: Jennifer Baker

Jennifer Baker  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:33
Member (2004)
Italian to English
Nov 26, 2004

Did anyone else in my language pair become annoyed at the series of "Finance" questions (12 to be exact) posted on Nov. 24? I could piece together the text by reading the questions, most of which could be found in any dictionary.
Curious to know if anyone else out there noticed... Jennifer

PS- I've pasted some of the KudoZ rules below





1.1 - Use KudoZ to ask for a translation only after you have consulted dictionaries, the Internet and the ProZ.com glossaries (KudoZ >Search Glossaries in the menu). If you have found translations elsewhere but still want to ask, include an explanation of what you have found--and why you are asking anyway--with your question.

1.2 - The KudoZ system is to be used for terms help only. Making announcements or otherwise misusing the KudoZ platform is prohibited.

1.3 - Texts longer than 10 words should not be posted as KudoZ questions, but as jobs. (Jobs > Post a Job)

1.4 - Sufficient context must be provided with each term question. When there is no context, indicate the subject area and type of document.

1.5 - In general, askers should refrain from posting a large number of questions in a short period of time.


[Edited at 2004-11-26 08:02]


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xxxIanW
Local time: 16:33
German to English
+ ...
Is 12 questions all that much? Nov 26, 2004

Hi JL,

I didn't actually see the questions you are talking about, but my initial reaction is to wonder if 12 questions is all that much. I am just finishing a rather difficult 2000-line project at the moment, and I have asked about 12 questions myself. Personally, I space them out because I prefer to work that way, but I'm sure that other people prefer to ask them all together before they begin proof-reading.

Furthermore, if the questions come from someone who contributes to KudoZ him/herself, I would have no qualms about answering 12 questions. On the other hand, if some non-member attempts to get a text done for free by posting it line for line, I'd be the first to reach for the squash button. This type of behaviour should be stamped out.

Incidentally, before a certain individual comes along brandishing an invented (and thoroughly self-serving) Golden Rule - to the effect that "if you don't like it, don't answer it" - let me just say that I feel taking advantage of colleagues' good nature and willingness to help is very much counterproductive to the whole KudoZ process. It's a great system and let's keep it that way.

All the best


Ian


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Giuliana Buscaglione  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 16:33
Member (2001)
German to Italian
+ ...
Please contact your moderator Nov 26, 2004

Hi,

If you really could "piece" the text together, KudoZ Rules were not respected.

Please contact your language pair moderator. Contacting a moderator is the fastest way to have "problems" or "misunderstandings" in KudoZ sorted out.

Giuliana


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Jennifer Baker  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:33
Member (2004)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
A note.. Nov 26, 2004

Thanks for the comments thus far- I want to make sure that I'm being clear.
I really am just curious to know if anyone else feels a bit annoyed seeing these types of questions stringed together. It may very well be my own personal tick-
As mentioned above by Ian, the number of questions really isn't so high, but seeing them stringed together and peppered with questions like "operazioni" http://www.proz.com/kudoz/874381...

I'm really just throwing this out there. Right or wrong as I may be- J.


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Jesús Marín Mateos  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:33
English to Spanish
+ ...
Translating into non native language Nov 26, 2004

Hi!!!
I don't know anything about the questions you are talking about but I'd like to add that sometimes I get requests to translate into English which is not my mother tongue. I don't tend to ask many Kudoz but when I translate into my non native language I ask a lot since I want to get the right tone for the text.
I just thought that this might have been the case in those 12 questions.....so we need to be patient.
Take care.
Jesus.


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Klaus Herrmann  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:33
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
Swahili Nov 26, 2004

You'd be surprised at how many questions I'd ask when translating to my non-spoken language, Swahili.

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Jennifer Baker  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:33
Member (2004)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Agreed Nov 26, 2004

Jesus Marin wrote:

Hi!!!
I don't know anything about the questions you are talking about but I'd like to add that sometimes I get requests to translate into English which is not my mother tongue. I don't tend to ask many Kudoz but when I translate into my non native language I ask a lot since I want to get the right tone for the text.
I just thought that this might have been the case in those 12 questions.....so we need to be patient.
Take care.
Jesus.


I totally agree.
The asker claims to be a native English speaker...


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writeaway  Identity Verified

Local time: 16:33
Partial member (2003)
French to English
+ ...
only 12? you ain't seen nothing yet............. Nov 26, 2004

Ian Winick wrote:

Furthermore, if the questions come from someone who contributes to KudoZ him/herself, I would have no qualms about answering 12 questions. On the other hand, if some non-member attempts to get a text done for free by posting it line for line, I'd be the first to reach for the squash button. This type of behaviour should be stamped out.

Incidentally, before a certain individual comes along brandishing an invented (and thoroughly self-serving) Golden Rule - to the effect that "if you don't like it, don't answer it" - let me just say that I feel taking advantage of colleagues' good nature and willingness to help is very much counterproductive to the whole KudoZ process. It's a great system and let's keep it that way.

Ian


Ian has said it: Kudoz is supposed to be a two-way EXCHANGE-sometimes people ask questions, sometimes they answer. In theory anyway....
In practice, there is an increasing amount of abuse by people who see Kudoz as a way to get through jobs:
1.that are outside of their field, scope of knowledge and/or language skills
2.that they never would have taken if they didn't have pro colleagues to do it for them (for nothing)

Who are these people?
Well they are easy enough to spot: the real abusers are the ones with hundreds (if not thousand(s)) of questions asked compared to 0 to 100 questions answered (figures provided by Proz). They are not interested in helping others, they only want to get help for themselves. They join and start listing their questions soon after. Or they try to hide behind an 'anonymous' alias (so it's hard to detect the number of questions, amongst other things) -and some especially clever ones actually do both! Or they hide behind the ploy of 'test/homework questions'.
They often ask these questions in fields that they claim to be experts in. And the questions are often 100% basic for those fields-questions no real expert would ever have to ask.
The real give-away for site abusers? We are aware of every job they get because there is a long list of very basic question-including entire sentences and paragraphs- that accompany each of these jobs. On a regular basis.
Why do people keep on answering (and clearly doing a fine job since these abusers keep returning with new docs)? I have no idea. Some people seem to feel Kudoz points are very valuable. Some people apparently have no work themselves and find it a fun way to pass the day?
Whatever the case, this abuse is increasing steadily and imho has to be dealt with. As Ian says, someone can have 20 questions from a long doc-the number of questions is not what abuse is about.
Abuse is the one-sided use of Proz, it's asking sentences, paragraphs about easy, clear terms that a genuine/qualified translator would never have to ask, it's continuously (not one-off) listing questions for jobs into a language the person does not master, it's asking questions because one is too lazy to bother using a dictionary or checking the web oneself, etc.
Imho, it is time to put a stop to this sort of abuse. There is now much too much of it and it seems to be increasing at an alarming rate.


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xxxIanW
Local time: 16:33
German to English
+ ...
Non-native language is no excuse Nov 26, 2004

At the risk of opening up a can of worms, I would like to point out that, if I decide to translate into a language other than my native language, then that does not automatically give me the right to bombard my ProZ colleagues with endless questions. I am often asked to translate into languages other than my native English, but I refuse to - which is entirely my business. Similarly, if other people choose to, that is entirely their business - but they should not expect their colleagues to carry them through.

All the best


Ian

[Edited at 2004-11-26 10:22]


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writeaway  Identity Verified

Local time: 16:33
Partial member (2003)
French to English
+ ...
Yessssssss!! Nov 26, 2004

Ian Winick wrote:

At the risk of opening up a can of worms, I would like to point out that, if I decide to translate into a language other than my native language, then that does not automatically give me the right to bombard my ProZ colleagues with endless questions. I am often asked to translate into languages other than my native English, but I refuse to - which is entirely my business. Similarly, if other people choose to, that is entirely their business - but they should not expect their colleagues to carry them through.

All the best


Ian

[Edited at 2004-11-26 10:22]


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Catherine Bolton  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:33
Member (2002)
Italian to English
+ ...
My response... Nov 26, 2004

to those ridiculous questions posed by someone who should at least invest in a dictionary if she plans to translate into a language she doesn't even know:
I opened each page and promptly closed it again. No answers. No agrees. No disagrees. No nuttin'.
I suppose I could have gone in there and suggested she try Babelfish, but it simply is not worth the effort. I'd rather sit around and hope that these folks will be hoist on their own petard sooner or later (hopefully sooner).
Catherine


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Prisma
English to Swedish
+ ...
Trolls Nov 26, 2004

KudoZ is available on the internet for anyone with access to the web and a computer.

There are a LOT of people using computers for no other reason than to upset people, tease people, simply to get a reaction of some sort.

You can usually find some of these guys/girls within any website that has a free question/answer type set up. Not just translations but PC questions, newsgroups etc etc.
These type of web users go under the name of 'Trolls'.

I'm not saying that anyone using KudoZ IS a troll, perhaps all questions that are asked are genuine and honstly intended, my point is though; you don't have to answer them.

Even if you have to scroll through 12 simple, annoying questions, KudoZ is still free and available.

There are greater things in this world to get upset about than the 'abuse' of a website, and this is my most humble opinion.


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Andrea Appel
Canada
Local time: 10:33
English to German
+ ...
Delete it Nov 26, 2004

Hi

We all have a delete button which comes very handy if bothered. I think this is a solution to the problem (if there is any).

Sometimes you work all day and all night to make the deadline and I think it comes very handy to throw some questions at Kudoz because your brain just stops operating(maybe its just me, oh my) after such a long day and yes it can be too much effort to look up the terms in dictionarys when your eyes are supported with matches to keep em open. I am surprised that people feel bothered why not just delete the question.

I mean any question can be offensive if you want it to be. I feel offended if I don´t know the answer ((-; (Im upset all the time)

Okay this is it, all the best to all of you and I hope I did not offend anybody.

lubmikdoderif
Andrea


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Andrea Appel
Canada
Local time: 10:33
English to German
+ ...
This was you?? Nov 26, 2004

Klaus Herrmann wrote:

You'd be surprised at how many questions I'd ask when translating to my non-spoken language, Swahili.



Now I remember you!!! You cost me a whole night answering all your questions.
Cheee, at least I know who it is now.


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writeaway  Identity Verified

Local time: 16:33
Partial member (2003)
French to English
+ ...
Deleting is not the answer-and the site is here to help colleagues with probs and questions Nov 26, 2004

Andrea Di Marco wrote:

Hi

We all have a delete button which comes very handy if bothered. I think this is a solution to the problem (if there is any).

Sometimes you work all day and all night to make the deadline and I think it comes very handy to throw some questions at Kudoz because your brain just stops operating(maybe its just me, oh my) after such a long day and yes it can be too much effort to look up the terms in dictionarys when your eyes are supported with matches to keep em open. I am surprised that people feel bothered why not just delete the question.

I mean any question can be offensive if you want it to be. I feel offended if I don´t know the answer ((-; (Im upset all the time)

Okay this is it, all the best to all of you and I hope I did not offend anybody.

lubmikdoderif
Andrea


If someone has genuine problems or queries, there is no objection at all. The abuse factor comes in when the person has clearly not bothered to do any research on their own or is asking very simple questions that would never be a problem if they were working in a field and/or language they knew. And the time and time again factor is also important. Anyone can get stuck with the wrong text and a one-off situation is certainly not abuse.

[Edited at 2004-11-29 16:38]


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