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Should I decline or award the points anyway?
Thread poster: LauBell
LauBell
English to Spanish
+ ...
Dec 14, 2004

Being new to Proz, I did't know how much trouble involved declining answers. Now I've seen many messages on this topic. I posted this question:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/884863?float=1
and later received feedback from an Argentine lawyer about which was the correct translation from a legal standpoint, and was different from all the answers received. I don't want the question to remain open, but neither do I want to have all the community against me on my first, one and only question to date if I decline the answers. Please advise what should I do...considering that I do have the correct translation and does not match any of the answers. Thanks!!


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Jesús Marín Mateos  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:34
English to Spanish
+ ...
Close it.....no one will be against you. Dec 14, 2004

Hi and welcome!!!!
I have had a look at the question and as you can see things are not black or white and sometimes it is difficult to agree on the right translation for a term/phrase that must have been translated a thousand times.
However you should remember that it is you who chooses and it is your responsibility. The fact that a lawyer has provided you with a translation that you think is right does not mean it is right although it may be. You also need to take into account the different varieties and people may have offered a correct answer according to the variety of Spanish they speak (in this case I think 'reclamo' and 'recurso' may have the same meaning but are used in different countries).
If I were you I would close the kudoz without remorse.
Jesus.

[Edited at 2004-12-14 22:12]

[Edited at 2004-12-14 22:13]


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Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 07:34
German to English
Should I decline or award the points anyway? Dec 14, 2004

LauBell wrote:

Being new to Proz, I did't know how much trouble involved declining answers.... I don't want the question to remain open, but neither do I want to have all the community against me on my first, one and only question to date if I decline the answers. Please advise what should I do...considering that I do have the correct translation and does not match any of the answers. Thanks!!


Dear LauBell,
I think you did the right thing. You gave each answerer a polite explanation for declining his or her answer and thanked them for their efforts. I also applaud you for being conscientious about KudoZ - taking your role as asker seriously. Good askers are as important to the system as good answerers.

Just one possibility that comes to mind is if at all possible, you might select the answer that was most helpful in general and award one or two points, if you think that's appropriate.

Cheers, Kim

P.S. And you could also enter the term you got from the lawyer in the KudoZ open glossary!

[Edited at 2004-12-14 22:34]


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LauBell
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks!!! Dec 14, 2004

Thank you all for your replies. I am now convinced that I did OK when posting this message, because I had not considered that the translation might vary from one Spanish speaking country to another (thank you, Jesus). And I took your suggestion Kim, and awarded the points -since the answers are very similar- to the reply that got more "agrees" from the peers and posted a note explaining. Many many thanks again!!!

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LauBell
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Abusing of your help... Dec 14, 2004

...could you tell me how do I comment on a question without providing an answer (i.e., to request context or otherwise?) When I click on Answer/Comment only an Answer form appears....what am I doing wrong?? THANKSSSSS!!!

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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:34
Member (2000)
Russian to English
+ ...
Click on "Ask the asker" Dec 15, 2004

This is a misleading name because it is used for both ends of the dialog: an answerer can use it to ask the asker something or make any other kind of comment, and the asker can also use it, to reply to any such comments, or to start a discussion himself.

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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 08:34
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
"Ask the asker" option is only available over 20 points Dec 15, 2004

Hi LauBell

Jack is right, but the problem is that you can't see this option when you have less than 20 KudoZ.

Claudia


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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:34
Member (2000)
Russian to English
+ ...
Why is that? Dec 15, 2004

Claudia, I didn't know that this option was not available to newcomers with less than 20 KudoZ, and I don't see the point of this restriction. Could anyone explain why it is not available to everyone?

[Edited at 2004-12-15 07:24]


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NancyLynn
Canada
Local time: 08:34
Member (2002)
French to English
+ ...
It`s an option for regular users Dec 15, 2004

Hi Jack,
The reason for the 20-point rule is simple: to keep the option open to regular or serious users of KudoZ, thus closing it to traffic from transient users.

Nancy


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LauBell
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks again! Dec 15, 2004

Thank you, Jack, Claudia and Nancy. I'm only 12 Kudoz short! The time will come, and I will get to "ask the asker"!! =) Joke aside, I 've been doing regular legal translations at my job for 9 years, although I'm not a certified translator. I've got my "degree" in English when I was 15 (I'm something like an "English teacher" here at Argentina, even if I don't practise) and I am amazed at this site which I found when I was looking for something else on the net. The only problem I have is that I find Proz kind of addictive!!! Maybe because I'm a newcomer? Or will the magic go on??? =)

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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 08:34
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
I confirm Dec 15, 2004

I confirm, LauBell, it is addictive.

If you still wonder, go and read the thread "Me estáis convirtiendo en ProZadicta" in the Spanish Forum
http://www.proz.com/topic/27208

Welcome

Claudia


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xxxIreneN
United States
Local time: 07:34
English to Russian
+ ...
I excluded Decline option from my practice on Proz Dec 15, 2004

Dear LauBell, please treat this as a general argument only, or an example of an attitude toward Decline on Proz. Mine.

I hate Decline option. Hate to use it (never ever do), and hate to receive it, especially without any explanations after providing references and descriptions in 2 languages. The choice of an answer that is not mine has nothing to do with it.

I need help! - Here, it might not be much but that's all I have, please take it. - Go to hell, I need more!

This is my understandng of Q - A - Decline sequence. Very personal, I know:-).

Of course, a nice explanation makes a great difference. But I prefer to award points in any case, thanking for the try. Even when I don't use an actual answer I would explain that, for example, the whole context, the register, plus the spirit of the document, which I can not provide in its entirety, calls for a different word but... and the points, and thanks, and nothing or a different term in the glossary. The answer might be interesting anyway. Even if the answer makes me laugh to the point of getting hiccups - I just let go. Bet ya, there will be others fighting, and I do too, but not when I'm the asker. I think asker's position is different - as askers we gather offerings and should not turn into an angry pagan deity and strike those bringing humble gifts. IMHO.

Sincerely,
Irina


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gad
United States
Local time: 08:34
Member
French to English
It’s your right to decline Mar 2, 2005

If you are not doing it for personal reasons against someone who responded – which you are obviously not – and if you have chosen to decline for a good reason and have nicely explained it to the answerers, then they should respect that. You are never obligated to accept a response, and it seems to me they might be more worried about points and having to be right as opposed to posting a response in the spirit of collaboration with other translation professionals.

I “just close” quite a few questions, especially lately, and most of the time it’s because ALL the responses are good, and have helped, even a little bit. Also, I have gotten emails from those who have posted the responses not chosen, indicating those individuals were not happy with my choice. So, instead of taking the chance of ticking somebody off who believes that I gave unfair preference in awarding the points to another response, I just avoid the issue of points and “just close” the question. I don’t do this all the time, but quite often, like I said, all the responses could be considered correct and are helpful. But I think it’s rather petty when someone has to take it personally when someone either chooses another response, or simply “just closes” the question. Sometimes I wonder if some people here are all about ego, and if that ego sometimes even gets in their way of the quality of their work without them even realizing it…


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gad
United States
Local time: 08:34
Member
French to English
Yes, "thank you" should be enough, points are not always the point Mar 3, 2005

I think you did the right thing. You gave each answerer a polite explanation for declining his or her answer and thanked them for their efforts. I also applaud you for being conscientious about KudoZ - taking your role as asker seriously. Good askers are as important to the system as good answerers.

Just one possibility that comes to mind is if at all possible, you might select the answer that was most helpful in general and award one or two points, if you think that's appropriate.


Kim, I had a situation where I closed a question without grading, and one of the answerers posts the note "so none of the responses were helpful at all?". I didn't understand how she could post that, since I must have already posted "thank you" at least three times - and when I did close the question, I specifically posted "thank you, everyone", so I thought that was clear that I appreciated the responses. Well, apparently that was not good enough...this person quoted to me, in a note, the KudoZ rule 2 about being "required" to grade. Then I explained again, quite graciously I might add. I'm not going to go into too much more detail but suffice it to say that I found out that was not good enough for her. I referred the situation to a moderator. I am sorry to have to bother that moderator, but I am a little annoyed.

I ended up using a combination of the responses. So I'm supposed to give points to the first responses, just by virtue of the fact that the person responded more quickly than the others? I don't agree with that - on quite a few occasions, in fact, in most cases, when I have clicked on the link to a KudoZ question, in my email notification, I get there just too late, and the correct response is already posted. So I should be penalized for posting an equally valid and equally helpful response, because I wasn't sitting on this site? I don't think so. And am I going to expect the points if I'm the first answerer and if I know my response was a good one? Of course not! Would I go on about it if someone closed a question without grading? Certainly not - that's why the option is there.

If the person asking is gracious, then someone who answers should be too, IMO.


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two2tango  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 09:34
Member
English to Spanish
+ ...
Rule 2 is for real Mar 3, 2005

gad wrote:

Well, apparently that was not good enough...this person quoted to me, in a note, the KudoZ rule 2 about being "required" to grade. Then I explained again, quite graciously I might add. I'm not going to go into too much more detail but suffice it to say that I found out that was not good enough for her. I referred the situation to a moderator. I am sorry to have to bother that moderator, but I am a little annoyed.


Rule 2 applies to all askers, no matter how gracious their explanations are.

Answers can be declined when they are deemed of no help. Declining all answers is supposed to mean that "none of the answers was of any help".

Askers that consistently leave their questions open risk being warned, or geting their questions rights blocked.

Regards,
Enrique


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