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Closing KudoZ questions without grading
Thread poster: Michele Fauble
Michele Fauble  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:44
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
Mar 2, 2005

When is it appropriate to close a Kudoz question without grading? I don't mean, what are the Kudoz rules for closing a question wthout grading, but what do you Kudoz askers and answerers consider a valid reason for not grading a question? If all the answers are correct or helpful, do you consider that a reason for closing without grading?

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Nikki Graham  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:44
Partial member (2003)
Spanish to English
Show some gratitude Mar 2, 2005

Michele Fauble wrote:
If all the answers are correct or helpful, do you consider that a reason for closing without grading?


No, I don't. Surely it must be possible to choose one which was the most helpful -or even the first if they are all more or less the same-.

If people have made an effort to answer one of my questions, I always try to be as grateful as possible and award the points. After all, I don't want to rub anyone up the wrong way as they could be the person that has the solution to my problem next time.

And while we're on the subject, it really annoys me when people close questions with: "Thanks, but I found the answer elsewhere" without telling you what the term they used was.

Recently, someone declined two of my answers to their questions. They then undeclined one answer and awarded me the points. (?????)

I think the point I'm trying to make is that we should be grateful for any answers given. Sometimes even the point-chasing fast ones can give you that little something you need to find the right term.


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Tina Vonhof  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 19:44
Member (2006)
Dutch to English
+ ...
Agree with Nikki. Mar 2, 2005

[quote]Nikki Graham wrote:

No, I don't. Surely it must be possible to choose one which was the most helpful -or even the first if they are all more or less the same-.

I totally agree. I would not grade only if none of the answers was helpful (it happened to me once - people were just guessing). But if they are all helpful, sometimes one person offers just a little bit more explanation or a good reference or an additional suggestion. And if they are all really equal, then I choose the one that came first.


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GoodWords  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 20:44
Spanish to English
+ ...
Agree with Nikki and Tina Mar 2, 2005

Michele Fauble wrote:
When is it appropriate to close a Kudoz question without grading? I don't mean, what are the Kudoz rules for closing a question wthout grading, but what do you Kudoz askers and answerers consider a valid reason for not grading a question?

Only one valid reason for closing without grading: 100% of the answers are entirely wrong and/or unhelpful, i.e. each and every one of the answers deserves 0 points (it seldom happens).

Michele Fauble wrote:
If all the answers are correct or helpful, do you consider that a reason for closing without grading?

No, time is the tiebreaker. The norm in the ProZ community is to award the points to the first answer submitted among answers that are otherwise equal.


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gad
United States
Local time: 21:44
Member
French to English
I would like a moderator's input on this Mar 3, 2005

I have done this. I have had trouble before when choosing a response, that the person whose response was not chosen then disagreed to the point where s/he felt it necessary to email me - not always nice, of course - and I honestly do feel that if there is not one answer that stands out and if all were helpful, it is perfectly ok to close it without grading, since I couldn't award points to everyone. I thoroughly disagree that doing so is not showing gratitude - I say "thank you" when receiving responses, and accept the responses graciously, and I honestly do not understand what the big deal is over points. Didn't the people responding intend to help (me and anyone else who might have that question in the future)? Or is it all about points and having to say one particular response MUST be chosen?

I have asked a moderator to give an opinion on what the rules are, but I am disappointed in reading these responses. I don't know how many times I can say "thank you", sincerely, and have an answerer still worried about points and who gets them is a bit puzzling to me. Points do not necessarily equal gratitude, and it is also nice if someone can respond to a question as graciously as they expect the asker to react to that response.

I disagree with the point about giving the fastest responses - do you know how many times I have clicked the link to a KudoZ question, in order to answer, AS SOON AS I received the notification by email, only to find that someone else had beat me to it? So, if I know an answer but someone else is sitting on this site, waiting for a question to answer, then I should be penalized for my supposed lack of knowledge - when I would have given the same response? So a person who posts a response later did not click fast enough, but that doesn't make their response better, does it?

Just my opinion. The whole idea that closing a question without grading is seen as ingratitude is just very disappointing to me.


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two2tango  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 22:44
Member
English to Spanish
+ ...
Questions should be closed Mar 3, 2005

gad wrote:

I have done this. I have had trouble before when choosing a response, that the person whose response was not chosen then disagreed to the point where s/he felt it necessary to email me - not always nice, of course - and I honestly do feel that if there is not one answer that stands out and if all were helpful, it is perfectly ok to close it without grading, since I couldn't award points to everyone.



2.1 - Askers are required to provide feedback to answerers by selecting the answer they find most helpful. (This is called "grading.") It is possible to decline all answers.


The asker should award points to the answer (s)he finds more helpful. If more than one question are equally helpful then the asker should select the one received first.

Declining is an option designed for answers that are found not helpful. Declining all answers means "none of them was of any help".

Leaving the questions open is, in my opinion, an unfair attitude. Selecting an answer does not look like a difficult decision to me.

There is a trend towards warning (and eventually blocking) the asking rights of members that consistently refuse to close their KudoZ questions.

Regards,
Enrique


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 21:44
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
Comments Mar 3, 2005

Michele Fauble wrote:
If all the answers are correct or helpful, do you consider that a reason for closing without grading?


Hello

I agree with Enrique, the only reason for closing without grading is that no answer is acceptable.
If all the answers are helpful I'd like to give points to all of them, but it's not possible, so I'll have to chose the most helpful.
Imagine that I have a chocolate and I can't share it, so I give it to one person, I chose the best.

Gad wrote:
I have done this. I have had trouble before when choosing a response, that the person whose response was not chosen then disagreed to the point where s/he felt it necessary to email me - not always nice, of course - and I honestly do feel that if there is not one answer that stands out and if all were helpful, it is perfectly ok to close it without grading, since I couldn't award points to everyone.


First the person should not have writtten to you, it's forbidden
3.4 - Commenting to an asker regarding his/her decision to post a certain question, to grade a certain way, or to make a certain glossary entry, is strictly forbidden. (Glossary entries can be edited after a question is closed without the involvement of an asker. Point decisions can be undone only by joint request to a moderator from both the asker and the person who was awarded the points.)


But closing the question without grading (with acceptable answers) is, if we keep the example of the chocolate, like having a chocolate and saying "as I don't know to whom I must give it, I eat it".
And you have all the benefits: you ask, people help you, you get the answer, and you eat the chocolate.

Claudia


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gad
United States
Local time: 21:44
Member
French to English
Rule 3.4 is interesting, thank you for pointing that out Mar 3, 2005

First the person should not have writtten to you, it's forbidden

3.4 - Commenting to an asker regarding his/her decision to post a certain question, to grade a certain way, or to make a certain glossary entry, is strictly forbidden. (Glossary entries can be edited after a question is closed without the involvement of an asker. Point decisions can be undone only by joint request to a moderator from both the asker and the person who was awarded the points.)


But closing the question without grading (with acceptable answers) is, if we keep the example of the chocolate, like having a chocolate and saying "as I don't know to whom I must give it, I eat it".
And you have all the benefits: you ask, people help you, you get the answer, and you eat the chocolate.


That is very interesting. Yes, I was specifically asked why I considered none of the questions helpful at all - when I had clearly made it a point to say just the opposite was true - and I kept getting asked about this, and there was even one note telling me whose answer I should pick!

Interesting that someone would quote rule 2.1 to me, yet didn't read down to 3.4.

But as you know, now I know that rule 2.1 is so absolute, and so I'll respect it from now on.

As far as "eating the chocolate", I prefer mine sweet.;)


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Michele Fauble  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:44
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for the clarification Mar 3, 2005

Thank you all for your responses. My question was prompted by my puzzlement at a question which was closed without grading because "all the answers were helpful".

Michele Fauble


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 21:44
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
All the rules are interesting Mar 3, 2005

They help a lot to decide who's right, who's wrong or what to do. Moderators follow them when they are contacted about problems in any section of the site.


I think that we could clarify our viewpoints.

I'll remember for the chocolate

Claudia


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Agnieszka Hayward
Poland
Local time: 03:44
German to Polish
+ ...
Chocolate and logic Mar 3, 2005

Claudia Iglesias wrote:

And you have all the benefits: you ask, people help you, you get the answer, and you eat the chocolate.



Dear Claudia,
I agree with you 99%.
The missing bit is... you can't actually "eat" the chocalate here, as (as far as I'm aware) there is no way you can award kudoZ points to yourself.

Regards,
Agnieszka


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 21:44
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
Claudia and logic Mar 3, 2005

O.K. Agnieszka, you discovered my Achilles heel

The asker can't grade himself but keeps for him the possibility to give points. It's true that it gives no benefit to him.
In some way it's like keeping the chocolate in the pocket, isn't it ?
I'm a sore loser

Claudia


tygru wrote:
I agree with you 99%.
The missing bit is... you can't actually "eat" the chocalate here, as (as far as I'm aware) there is no way you can award kudoZ points to yourself.


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gad
United States
Local time: 21:44
Member
French to English
You don't sound like a sore loser... Mar 3, 2005

I'm a sore loser


Actually, a person who complains about not being awarded points is a sore loser - YOU are not a sore loser.;)


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