non-site member posting questions in an abusive manner
Thread poster: xxxLia Fail
xxxLia Fail  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:51
Spanish to English
+ ...
Jun 10, 2005

I notice how someone may have translated the best part of an entire contract by posting a series of questions on fomulaic legal expressions, plus one question for a standard term that anybody claiming to 'work' in 2 languages should know, and which could have been answered anyway using an online dictionary.

Not to mention that fact that the glossary is packed with loads of formulaic legal terms.

What's more, since they are not site members, what doesn't feature next to their name is the number of questions already asked.

What's most annoying is how people avid for KudoZ - some of whom haven't a much better idea of the target language than the asker - are helping this person.

I just don't get it ... a few weeks ago I went bananas becuase of the reaction to an overlong question of mine (fair enough, I should have adhered to the rules by being more specific about what difficulty I was having, but I needed a 2nd opinion on interpretation of the paragraph as a unit), but it was a genuine translation difficulty from a fairly standard text, that no dictionary would have helped me resolve, and largely because the source text was ambiguous ....

ProZ has been an absolute boon to translators, for helping them out of the kind of fixes for which no solution other than consultation with other experts exists. But it has deteriorated substantially from when it was a smaller, less well-known site, and maybe it's time to really take this issue on board. I know that a lot of teh people who have been around from the time when the site had no more than 10,000 members would agree with me on this.

I would pay to have privileged access to a professional translation site, becuase I believe that most things worth having have to be paid for in some way, and such a privilege would be simply a good business investment, just like having decent equipment and secure Internet access are sensible and necessary investments to be able to function properly as a translator.


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Anabel Martínez  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:51
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
very much discussed issue Jun 10, 2005

Dear Ailish,

I understand and share your feelings, but I'm sure you know as well as I do that some measures are to be implemented later this year, mostly the limit in the questions to be posted by non-members and members of the site.

These measures, in turn, had led to further discussion as to the effectiveness of the same


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NancyLynn
Canada
Local time: 07:51
Member (2002)
French to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
I think you'll get many 'agrees' on this one ;-) Jun 10, 2005

Ailish Maher wrote:
I would pay to have privileged access to a professional translation site, becuase I believe that most things worth having have to be paid for in some way


As you know, Ailish, and remember from the aftermath of the question you're referring to a good number of members cam forth with this suggestion.

Nancy


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Serkan Doğan  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 14:51
Turkish to English
+ ...
Insane matter Jun 10, 2005

It is really a bothersome issue in proz. Somebody sends questions for joke only, sometimes very easy questions.. And, more surprisingly, many of us respond them so instantly!

[Edited at 2005-06-10 14:13]


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mónica alfonso  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:51
English to Spanish
+ ...
I wonder Jun 10, 2005

how will the site be able to control the number of questions a non-member asks if he/she uses a different nick each time he/she logs in.

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Elvira Stoianov  Identity Verified
Luxembourg
Local time: 13:51
German to Romanian
+ ...
they probably use the IP address Jun 10, 2005

mónica alfonso wrote:

how will the site be able to control the number of questions a non-member asks if he/she uses a different nick each time he/she logs in.




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writeaway  Identity Verified

Local time: 13:51
Partial member (2003)
French to English
+ ...
abuse by non-site members or by Platinum members-what's in a name? Jun 10, 2005

I agree with Ailish and others that abusive use of translation 'help' is now well beyond acceptable limits. But frankly the difference between non-site members, non-Platinum members and part or full Platinum members is a mere click of the mouse or wave of the credit card. Since limits have been looming, I've been amused to see some long-standing non-Platinum members suddenly go Plat and some non-members suddenly emerge from the shadows as 'members', with 100% empty profiles, needless to say.
As stated by others, a few years ago the site was just for people with the occasional problem-no tired dictionary fingers or lazy minds, but people stuck in the midst of a translation. Back then, those who started to hit the site with series of long questions (does anyone just ask 'terms' anymore? nowadays the questions read: please see sentence, please see paragraph...) were chastised by fellow translators (!) and then the questions were systematically squashed as 'site abuse' when they continued. 7 or 8 questions about a single doc. were enough to get people annoyed.
Look at where we are today-people who are there everyday-it's their virtual workplace, where others do and/or proofread their jobs for them. Ask them to look things up themselves and the response is 'oh, I'm too busy', 'I don't have any time','don't answer if you don't want to help' etc. etc. And the questions? basic terms, phrases that would never be a problem if they people were really fit to do the jobs. And of course there are loads of willing 'helpers' eager to get 'pro' points for questions that in the real world are easy and even often embarrassing. How many of us moan to ourselves: HOW could ask they that!
I personally don't care what the person's site status is-if they are using and abusing the site to get through jobs, then that's what matters. Perhaps it's time to get the PRO back into ProZ.


[Edited at 2005-06-12 08:56]


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Parrot  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:51
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Changes were already announced Jun 10, 2005

Hi Ailish,

Just wondering if you'd read this: http://www.proz.com/post/230481#230481

Monica, as far as the computer's concerned, there's no difference between an unlogged member and a non-member. I.e., if I log out and forget to log in, you'd see me as a non-member if I asked a KudoZ question.

Elvira, we can't use IPs just like that because some of them are dynamic and in many countries they're shared.

[Edited at 2005-06-11 10:57]


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xxxLia Fail  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:51
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
reply to Parrot Jun 10, 2005

Parrot wrote:

Hi Ailish,

Just wondering if you'd read this: http://www.proz.com/post/230481#230481



Thanks Parrot

I know the issue has been brought up time and again in many ways, but to be honest, nothing's changed except for the worst in ProZ, and it's such a shame to see a site that was formerly - for me personally - the source of much pleasure, warmth, and 'translation relief' - come to this.

I know I am saying what's been said before, but some of the abuse is so patent, and what's worse, so many are willing to collude.....



[Edited at 2005-06-10 23:38]


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Martine Etienne  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 13:51
Member (2003)
English to French
+ ...
Surely depending on the pairs in which you work Jun 11, 2005

For instance, in the pair dutch-french, we are only some persons to ask and to answer... No matter how many questions one may ask, if we can help.. we do it.. I do not understand why some peope are feeling frustrated because some others ask questions.. This is a service, you enter in the service or you stay out of it.. As far as very easy questions are concerned.. well..It does not annoy me at all, i do not answer if I feel it is a joke... Why not take all this in a cooler way, you are there, you can answer.. just answer.... Noone can earn his life with asking and answering Kudoz... so..relax..

Take care

Martine


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Parrot  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:51
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
I'm willing to give limits a try Jun 11, 2005

Ailish Maher wrote:

I know the issue has been brought up time and again in many ways, but to be honest, nothing's changed except for the worst in ProZ, and it's such a shame to see a site that was formerly - for me personally - the source of much pleasure, warmth, and 'translation relief' - come to this.

I know I am saying what's been said before, but some of the abuse is so patent, and what's worse, so many are willing to collude.....


though I remember the time you were referring to. We practically knew everybody back then.

On the other hand, with 10,000 members, we had no assurance we'd still be sharing problems and solutions the day after, and to talk about a "five-year plan" back then was something of a presumption.


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xxxLia Fail  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:51
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
reply to Martine Jun 25, 2005

Martine Etienne wrote:

For instance, in the pair dutch-french, we are only some persons to ask and to answer... No matter how many questions one may ask, if we can help.. we do it.. I do not understand why some peope are feeling frustrated because some others ask questions.. This is a service, you enter in the service or you stay out of it.. As far as very easy questions are concerned.. well..It does not annoy me at all, i do not answer if I feel it is a joke... Why not take all this in a cooler way, you are there, you can answer.. just answer.... Noone can earn his life with asking and answering Kudoz... so..relax..

Take care

Martine


Referring to my posting: "a series of questions on fomulaic legal expressions, plus one question for a standard term that anybody claiming to 'work' in 2 languages should know, and which could have been answered anyway using an online dictionary"

I am talking about 'abusive use', unlike your language pair, I am referring to a language combination for which there is plenty of online material, inc. dictionaries (for 'dictionary' words) and a substantial number of entries in the ProZ glossary (formulaic legal expressions).


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Edward L. Crosby III  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:51
German to English
+ ...
Abuse is not "OK" Jun 27, 2005

Martine,

I can see no good reason to abuse the question/answer system by asking questions which are not intended to resolve genuine terminology problems. I realize that translators who are just starting out in the business will frequently have questions that for many of us were answered decades ago, and that's perfectly OK.

Abuse of the system is not.

Best,

Ed


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