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Reading suggestions in their entirety before placing yours.
Thread poster: Sormane Fitzgerald Gomes

Sormane Fitzgerald Gomes  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:26
Member (2004)
Portuguese to English
+ ...
Jul 28, 2005

You know, it’s very frustrating, at least to me, to go though great lengths to explain something in the body text of a suggestion, giving a thorough explanation and a couple of options (especially if the question is not very clear) only to have your answer road killed by several exact same suggestions several minutes or hours later simply because the others are too lazy to read your entire suggestion or they desperately want the points or to show off or something.
I guess their reasoning is that the other suggestion or options weren’t in the target term box, so it’s OK to suggest it again. I find it amateurish, sad, and very discouraging, especially when the asker follows suit and chooses the same suggestion given much later.
I really appreciate and enjoy when I see a well-explained answer, with examples related to the same context, great links, etc. where you see that the person really put his/her heart into it in order to genuinely try to help the asker, as opposed to the 1-2 minute mad rush. I read every line, letter and space of a suggestion before I place mine. I think that shows respect to the others and the time they have put into it.


Sormane Gomes


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Angela Arnone  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:26
Member (2004)
Italian to English
+ ...
Translators who don't bother reading Jul 28, 2005

I'm absolutely in full agreement with you.
What is the point of answering a kudoz if you don't bother to check what other people have already suggested?
Surely the translator's basic skill is that of reading and understanding, before offering any sort of version, so I don't see what is to be gained by blindly barrelling off an answer when it may well already be on the page.
It's happened to me and it's annoying and frustrating, as well as causing confusion for askers, who may not be expert at the kudoz game!.
Angela

Sormane Fitzgerald Gomes wrote:

... I read every line, letter and space of a suggestion before I place mine. I think that shows respect to the others and the time they have put into it.


Sormane Gomes


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Steffen Walter  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:26
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
Fully agree that this behaviour is unacceptable Jul 28, 2005

Sormane Fitzgerald Gomes wrote:

You know, it’s very frustrating, at least to me, to go though great lengths to explain something in the body text of a suggestion, giving a thorough explanation and a couple of options (especially if the question is not very clear) only to have your answer road killed by several exact same suggestions several minutes or hours later ...


Hi Sormane,

I fully agree that this sort of behaviour is totally unacceptable. However, please do keep in mind that members posting an answer only "several minutes later" may not have seen yours while doing their own research. But you were surely referring to more blatant cases, weren't you?

Best,

Steffen


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avsie  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:26
English to French
+ ...
The opposite is also true... Jul 28, 2005

Once I gave a detailed answer, with various possibilities, just to have others taking these suggestions and making them theirs... and who got the agrees and eventually the points? Not me Tja, these suggestions were not in the "title" of my answer, so that makes them unofficial, I guess?

Anyway, not that I really care, since KudoZ is really just a game for me. But I found that behavior rather rude...

[Edited at 2005-07-28 13:54]


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Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 21:26
German to English
Reading the suggestion in its entirety Jul 28, 2005

Sormane Fitzgerald Gomes wrote:

I really appreciate and enjoy when I see a well-explained answer, with examples related to the same context, great links, etc. where you see that the person really put his/her heart into it in order to genuinely try to help the asker, as opposed to the 1-2 minute mad rush. I read every line, letter and space of a suggestion before I place mine. I think that shows respect to the others and the time they have put into it.


Sormane Gomes


Well said, my friend. It's the "mad rush" that we have to do something about. I don't know exactly what we need to do, but we need to think about ways to slow things down a bit to allow for thoughtful, well-researched answers instead of hasty, sloppy answers. One thing that could help is to make it impossible for answerers to close their questions before at least 24 hours have elapsed.
Kim


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Sormane Fitzgerald Gomes  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:26
Member (2004)
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Yes, blatant cases. Jul 28, 2005

Steffen Walter wrote:

But you were surely referring to more blatant cases, weren't you?

Best,

Steffen


Yes, I was. I even go back to the question, while I'm doing my research, just to make sure that my suggestion hasn't already been posted by someone else before I post mine. There have been several instances where I wasn't quick enough on my research and someone else made the suggestion I was going to make. I just close my window and agree with the person.

Sormane Gomes


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writeaway  Identity Verified

Local time: 05:26
Partial member (2003)
French to English
+ ...
Some people do read the answers very carefully indeed ... Jul 28, 2005

... and then make a minor adjustment or so (change a word via the thesaurus, add another word or two), which they then enter as a completely new answer(often with 100% confidence). on one site I saw a specialist in the matter who included: that's it. this is the answer. And yes, even though the same answer was already given in a less 'screaming' way, the copycat answer also received a few peer agrees and was actually picked by Asker.
It's easier to let others do the thinking and then step in and reap the rewards of someone else's intelligence, (research) work and translating skills.

[Edited at 2005-07-28 15:19]


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xxxnonogogo
English
+ ...
Going back to rectify through agree Jul 28, 2005

I always try to read everything in the answers before posting..it has happened that I have missed something in a previous answer. I always try to go back and say either I am sorry or missed something....

Also, when I think I have a better answer but that others answers are also good, I Always say that. I give agrees to others even when I post my own answer...

I find that there is a lot of this "not reading" going on at present...

cheers


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xxxnonogogo
English
+ ...
Reading all answer prior to posting Jul 28, 2005

Yes right. And if I miss something inadvertently, I always try and go back and say so....like, sorry I missed this...or whatever....

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Can Altinbay  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:26
Japanese to English
+ ...
It is frustrating Jul 28, 2005

I have on occasion placed a "neutral" on the second (and sometimes even more subsequent) answer asking how this answer differs from the previous one. I won't do it when it happens to me, but some colleagues have been kind enough to do the same for me.

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Anabel Martínez  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 05:26
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
I thought about doing that many times Jul 28, 2005

Can Altinbay wrote:

I have on occasion placed a "neutral" on the second (and sometimes even more subsequent) answer asking how this answer differs from the previous one. I won't do it when it happens to me, but some colleagues have been kind enough to do the same for me.


This is something I have refrained myself from doing, maybe due to shyness, I wouldn't know for sure. I guess it would be like entering in a kind of "personal fight" with some askers and I'd like to preserve some kind of "nice environment", and other times I also thought it was so obvious that they have copied the answer that everyone had already notice, but it seems some askers just don't! Then putting some neutrals to "shame" copycats might help some of them not to be so cheeky.


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Tina Vonhof  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 21:26
Member (2006)
Dutch to English
+ ...
I do agree but... Jul 28, 2005

I do agree that we need to read the previous answers carefully before posting our own. If our answer is only a slight modification of an earlier one, we should not post a separate answer, but simply 'agree' and make the alternative suggestion there.

BUT, on the other hand, sometimes answerers post a whole book's worth of information with multiple references, when a relatively simple answer will do. Then it is just 'overkill'. And it is in everyone's best interest to make the answer that shows on the answer line to the point and the best suggestion you have to offer.


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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:26
Member (2000)
Russian to English
+ ...
May agree with other than first of two identical answers Jul 28, 2005

Where two answers are identical and one has good references and the other does not, I may agree with the latter regardless of whether it was the first to be posted or not.

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Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 21:26
German to English
Reading suggestions in their entirety Jul 28, 2005

Jack Doughty wrote:

Where two answers are identical and one has good references and the other does not, I may agree with the latter regardless of whether it was the first to be posted or not.


My sentiments entirely, Jack. It's not the first possibly correct answer that's submitted but the first well-documented correct answer that deserves the points.


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Lawyer-Linguist  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 04:26
Dutch to English
+ ...
Take time out of the equation......... Jul 28, 2005

Kim is quite right in his observations.

The mad rush is the problem, which may be best resolved by removing the timing of answers altogether and taking it out of the equation.

That way the asker doesn't feel obliged to pick an earlier answer, but can truly indicate which one helped him/her most.

That should, in most cases be the best researched and supported (without the overkill Tina refers to).

Just a suggestion with plenty of counter-arguments but if the whole object is to help the asker and enter a term into the glossary that actually makes the site glossary something everyone wants to have access to (and, if necessary, pay for), then quality must take priority over timing altogether.

It will also possibly help counter-act askers who post questions as "pro" that obviously shouldn't be because they know a point-hungry individual (often with editing powers) will come along and draw the pistol as quick as possible.

Finally, maybe if timing is taken out of the equation this rather dangerous tendency of just scrolling over a web page and copy-pasting google hits will also stop. They can be misleading to less experienced translators. Google can be a wonderful aid, but only if used properly.

Anyhow, as I said there will be many counter-arguments, I'm sure and those best left perhaps to another thread but an enforced 24 hour rule and the removal of timing from the equation will go a long way to ending the crazed entering of the first term that springs to mind (often with unfounded maximum confidence).

Debs


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