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Use and abuse of Kudoz
Thread poster: Elena Pavan

Elena Pavan  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:56
Member (2005)
French to Italian
+ ...
Sep 3, 2005

Hello!
I really appreciate the Kudoz, but I probably didn't understand exactly the way of using it.
I thought that I should first look up in the dictionary, then on the Internet, then on the glossaries, and, if I cannot find an answer to my question or if couldn't find a solution I like, or if I would like to have a piece of advice from my collegues, THEN I post a question on the Kudoz.
Actually, I get the impression that you find more and more "common" and easy expressions. The kind of terms that you can easily find on the Eurodicautom.
Is the Kudoz getting a practical way not to waste time looking up in the dictionaries and on the Internet?
I'm usually pleased to help my collegues, but I wouldn't realy like to make the job at their place.
Did you get the same impression?


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m a r i n a  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:56
English to Spanish
+ ...
Absolutely! Sep 3, 2005

I totally agree with you. Plus, most of the times people don´t provide the necessary info, context or cotext. That´s why I rarely answer Kudoz question.

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Luis Zepeda
United States
Local time: 03:56
Spanish to English
+ ...
Use and Abuse of Kudoz Sep 3, 2005

I agree with your comments. I myself like answering the questions as they help other people, but I personally have been awarded points for terms which later appear again. Even though I have responded that the answer lies within Kudoz, the process continues. Like both of you, there are members to whom I do not respond. I have earned over 700 points and have yet to ask a question as I have found most answers to my doubts in the Kudoz pages. I wonder sometimes if the askers are not working over their heads and want members to bail them out. But such is life and most likely, I will continue to answer questions,

[Edited at 2005-09-03 13:56]


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Sormane Fitzgerald Gomes  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:56
Member (2004)
Portuguese to English
+ ...
It's clearly an abuse. Sep 3, 2005


I wonder sometimes if the askers are not working over their heads and want members to bail them out.


I agree with you, Elena. This has been discussed at length here, but I don't think that will ever change. We have that happening all the time in my language pairs. It’s clearly an abuse, and very little is done about it.

People breaking the rules (more-than-ten-word questions, more-than-three-term questions, etc) and yet members (which is the part I don’t get at all) rush to their “aid.”

This week we had someone who claims she can translate into English asking how she could say “I can always count on your friendship” in English.

We also have the usual “customers” coming for their daily dosage of 5 questions.

To me, it is very frustrating and disappointing, and quite frankly, a disservice to the community of professional translators. Free of charge, we’re helping these people complete jobs for which they were obviously not qualified and which they never should have taken in the first place.

Sormane F. Gomes


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Steffen Pollex  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:56
English to German
+ ...
Could you, please stop this one? Sep 3, 2005

I am wondering how, being here for two months or even less, you can complain on finding "more and more" simple questions.

No doubt, it happens, but hardly, your term of membership is sufficient to allow you making judgements on this and general statements of this kind.

Plus, this issue has been and is being "discussed" time and time again, back and forth, with no obvious benefit or solution.

If you dislike some questions - just ignore them, and that's it. After all, nobody forces you to answer.

Steffen


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Channa Montijn  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 12:56
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
+ ...
I agree, but Sep 3, 2005

I do not get upset... I just ignore those askers... and I urge every pro to do the same.
You'll recognize soon enough who really needs help and then you respond.
Mind you, if they (meaning the frequent askers) do not get answers, they will give up.
Do not waste your time and enery on this... just do not answer...

[Edited at 2005-09-03 14:47]


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Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 05:56
German to English
Let's make it a good workplace for pros and a good classroom for newcomers Sep 3, 2005

Everybody knows that students cannot become proficient in the subjects they are studying if the teacher keeps giving them the answers to their questions instead of teaching them to find the answers themselves. Students who just want the answers are "abusers" of the education system. A truly educated person is someone who has learned how to learn.

Most translators tend to be natural teachers, willing to help newcomers learn the ropes and continuously improve. I think the recent limits to questions shows that ProZ.com believes in creating not only a good professional atmosphere for working translators but also a good learning environment for newbies. And I think pros who don't buy into the argument that we should just ignore abusers are good teachers, not cranky old fuddy duddies.

I think we're heading in the right direction for KudoZ. We're gradually creating a more professional workplace and a good classroom for newcomers to the profession.


[Edited at 2005-09-03 15:46]


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Robert Zawadzki  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:56
English to Polish
+ ...
Sweet dreams are made of this Sep 3, 2005

Some of them want to use you
Some of them want to get used by you
Some of them want to abuse you
Some of them want to be abused.

[Eurythmics]

[Edited at 2005-09-03 15:25]


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Elena Pavan  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:56
Member (2005)
French to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Is that the way? Sep 3, 2005

Kim Metzger wrote:


Most translators tend to be natural teachers, willing to help newcomers learn the ropes and continuously improve. I think the recent limits to questions shows that ProZ.com believes in creating not only a good professional atmosphere for working translators but also a good learning environment for newbies. And I think pros who don't buy into the argument that we should just ignore abusers are good teachers, not cranky old fuddy duddies.

I think we're heading in the right direction for KudoZ. We're gradually creating a more professional workplace and a good classroom for newcomers to the profession.


[Edited at 2005-09-03 15:46]



_______

Well, Here is an answer I have just received on my e-mail, but that has not been published on the Forum. Is that the right way for creating a good professional atmosphere???? Thank God, this kind of answer (and of person) is just a minority on the site (as far as I have seen, as, of course, I have been here for "two months or even less"!!!!!) and we can still keep our good atmosphere.
Here is the message:

Could you, please stop this one?

I am wondering how, being here for two months or even less,
you can complain on finding "more and more" simple
questions.

No doubt, it happens, but hardly, your term of membership
is sufficient to allow you making judgements on this and
general statements of this kind.

Plus, this issue has been and is being "discussed" time and
time again, back and forth, with no obvious benefit or
solution.

If you dislike some questions - just ignore them, and
that's it. After all, nobody forces you... [click link to
read on]


... but the link doesn't work!


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Angela Arnone  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:56
Member (2004)
Italian to English
+ ...
Stop what Steffen? Sep 3, 2005

You would like us to gag someone who wants to start a civilised discussion?
I'm surprised at you.
Maybe you could apply your suggestion to your own posting - if you aren't interested in this topic or have nothing constructive to say, rather than take an aggressive stance towards a new member, you could just not post?
I'm apologising to the poster on behalf of all of us other members for this gratuitously negative attitude.
Steffen, please try and be welcoming and positive - I know you can be.
Thanks
Angela


Steffen Pollex wrote:

I am wondering how, being here for two months or even less, you can complain on finding "more and more" simple questions.

No doubt, it happens, but hardly, your term of membership is sufficient to allow you making judgements on this and general statements of this kind.

Plus, this issue has been and is being "discussed" time and time again, back and forth, with no obvious benefit or solution.

If you dislike some questions - just ignore them, and that's it. After all, nobody forces you to answer.

Steffen


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Cilian O'Tuama
Local time: 12:56
German to English
+ ...
With the new flag / filter function, you only need to "ignore" them once Sep 3, 2005

Channa Montijn wrote:

I do not get upset... I just ignore those askers... and I urge every pro to do the same.
You'll recognize soon enough who really needs help and then you respond.
Mind you, if they (meaning the frequent askers) do not get answers, they will give up.
Do not waste your time and enery on this... just do not answer...

[Edited at 2005-09-03 14:47]


I used to be among the first the complain about abuse, but now you can use the filter function on the new dashboard to filter out all questions from certain askers. Just enter their names on your filter list and their questions will not appear on your screen any more. And if you don't see them, they can't upset you!

If there are only certain people whose questions you want to see on your screen, you can use the "flag" function, which then inserts a green flag next to their names when they post questions. That makes them easier to pick out.

Speaking of which, I'd like another option to filter out (with a single click) e.g. all askers with an empty profile or all those who are not logged in. Maybe it's just me, but I prefer to know something - at least the native language* - of askers, as that will influence the language (jargon) I use when answering.

That said, I still think the site is changing for the better. Thank you!

(* though it seems anyone, including those with platinum status and verified identities, can claim to be a native speaker of any language they want - has this ever been addressed?)


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two2tango  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 07:56
Member
English to Spanish
+ ...
Automatic message Sep 3, 2005

Elena Pavan wrote:

Well, Here is an answer I have just received on my e-mail, but that has not been published on the Forum....

... but the link doesn't work!


Hi Elena,

I think you received the same kind of automatic message for all postings in the thread you started.

Some postings take longer to get published in the forum because they require vetting by a moderator.

The posting you mention is visible now.

Regards,
Enrique


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Channa Montijn  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 12:56
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
+ ...
The perfect reply Sep 3, 2005

Robert Zawadzki wrote:

Some of them want to use you
Some of them want to get used by you
Some of them want to abuse you
Some of them want to be abused.

[Eurythmics]

[Edited at 2005-09-03 15:25]


Wish I had thought of that one... You hit the nail on the head -:))


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Sormane Fitzgerald Gomes  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:56
Member (2004)
Portuguese to English
+ ...
You’re just choosing not to witness the abuse. Sep 3, 2005


I used to be among the first the complain about abuse, but now you can use the filter function on the new dashboard to filter out all questions from certain askers.


Yes, you can filter the questions or simply ignore them, but I would hardly qualify that as taking care of the problem. You’re just choosing not to witness the abuse.

My beef is primarily with questions that are clearly breaking the rules and yet the members have no problem with that. So, what is the point of creating rules anyway?

Yes, I can squash them if I’m fast enough to spot them the minute they’re posted. But if someone has already given an answer (which is usually the case) I cannot do a thing about it anymore.

It’s like saying that it is illegal to smoke marijuana in the place, but if you’ve already lit up a joint, we’ll let you go this time. Maybe we’ll catch you the next time.

Perhaps people like me are in the minority here, and if that is the case, maybe I have to reconsider my position and participation here.

Sormane F. Gomes


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Andrea Ali  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 07:56
Member (2003)
English to Spanish
+ ...
I agree with Elena Sep 3, 2005

Hi Steffen,

Some answers and questions below:

Steffen Pollex wrote:
I am wondering how, being here for two months or even less, you can complain on finding "more and more" simple questions.


Maybe Elena has been here for a short while but I don' see how this prevents her from expressing her opinion on a given matter.



No doubt, it happens, but hardly, your term of membership is sufficient to allow you making judgements on this and general statements of this kind.


Am I allowed? I guess I am. But I don't think this is the idea behind Proz. The level of membership may just indicate you can or you want to support the site, and benefit accordingly from it. Henry's idea of Proz is that of a worldwide community where translators can gather and help each other. Henry, correct me if I am wrong.


Plus, this issue has been and is being "discussed" time and time again, back and forth, with no obvious benefit or solution.


And I hope we will continue discussing it. I think some things have been achieved and some others need more time and effort.


If you dislike some questions - just ignore them, and that's it. After all, nobody forces you to answer.


I don't think it is just a question of liking/disliking some questions. Many of "these" questions are clear examples of ABUSE. And I am against abuse.

Of course nobody forces you to answer them. But it is sort of discouraging to see people answering twenty questions in a row from the same asker, who "gives" nothing to the site. At this point, do these askers have the right to ask for help and give nothing in return? Have you noticed that, in general, these askers are here to have their work done for free and they give nothing in return? Are they Platinum? No, they aren't. Have they been here for a long time? No, they haven't.

It is up to us to make this site a professional place. And we have been given the freedom to do it.
The staff is constantly working to improve the site. I think we should help them.

I see many colleagues answering questions without caring if the person has logged in with three different names. I see lot of questions which answer can be found in any dictionary. I ignore the question, or sometimes I write a note to the asker and to the mods. I wish everybody did the same.

Sormane said it very well:

People breaking the rules (more-than-ten-word questions, more-than-three-term questions, etc) and yet members (which is the part I don’t get at all) rush to their “aid.”


I think they are Kudoz chasers, that's all. Wrong? Right? Again, we have been given freedom.

I wish we all ignored these abusers but not by flagging them. That's not the solution. We should get involved and send notes to the askers telling them the answer is already in the KOG or to check a dictionary.

It might take a long time but it can be achieved. Together!

Have a nice weekend!

Andrea


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