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Colourful side of kudoz questions
Thread poster: David Brown
David Brown  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 08:59
Spanish to English
Nov 1, 2005

This has probably come up before, but why is "disagree" in red. For me, it has angry connotations. How about putting faces such as for agree, for disagree and :] for neutral.

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Maria Karra  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:59
Member (2000)
Greek to English
+ ...
smileys Nov 1, 2005

I think this is a lovely idea!

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PCovs
Denmark
Local time: 08:59
Member (2003)
English to Danish
+ ...
Me too - or three ;o) Nov 1, 2005

Perhaps the colouration of the 'disagree' is also the reason why some answerers react rather aggressively, when they get one?

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Derek Gill Franßen  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 08:59
German to English
+ ...
Smileys Nov 1, 2005

I know that it may seem trivial, but I'd also be happy if the smileys would be converted in the answers (like they are here).

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gad
United States
Local time: 02:59
Member
French to English
A frowning face doesn't have negative connotations, but the color red does? Nov 1, 2005

I think things are fine the way they are and there is no reason to make this change. And to me, a frowning face comes across as more negative than the color red does.

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Klaus Herrmann  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 08:59
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
Traffic lights look better in full color Nov 1, 2005

If I receive a disagree comment, I think of it pretty much as a red light - stop and think again. If I were more of an emotional person, I'd probably feel angry about 'disagree smileys' being smaller than 'agree smileys'...

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Stephanie Wloch  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 08:59
Member (2003)
Dutch to German
Frowning face not that friendly Nov 1, 2005

And to me, a frowning face comes across as more negative than the color red does.
I agree, because this facial expression could even implicate that you are generally doubting the professional skills of the answerer.:-O


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PCovs
Denmark
Local time: 08:59
Member (2003)
English to Danish
+ ...
And a disagree doesn't? Nov 1, 2005

Tuliparola wrote:

...this facial expression could even implicate that you are generally doubting the professional skills of the answerer.:-O


I think I know what you mean here, but why wouldn't feel that your professional skills are questioned by the red disagree?

In general, a 'disagree' should put your knowledge in doubt (or should at least make you think twice), so why would you see a frowning face as worse than the colour red?

I'm just wondering


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Maria Karra  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:59
Member (2000)
Greek to English
+ ...
disagrees, red color, frowning faces Nov 2, 2005

I see the frowning face as a sad face, not an angry face. To me it says "I'm not happy", "I'm disappointed", so next to an answer it wouldn't show any ...hostility, it would just mean "I'm unhappy with this answer". If I added a frowning face this would reflect my feelings, it wouldn't put the translator's skills in doubt.

Speaking of expressions of disappointment: in high school I had a Physics teacher who never got angry when we got a question wrong. And he never said "that's wrong". He didn't show indifference either, like other teachers who would just give up on us and give us bad grades. He would just look at us for a few seconds, and his look expressed such disappointment... I'll never forget that look as long as I live. The fact that he cared enough to feel disappointed made us try even harder, because we wanted him to feel proud of his students. We really felt that we were making him sad when we were unprepared. Until then I hated Physics; thanks to him I started liking it, and it's because of him that I went into science.
I went way off topic here, I'm sorry. I know you don't care about my high school days My point is that if I see a "disappointment" smiley next to my answer, I will try harder next time, instead of feeling attacked and trying to find an argument to reply to that red "disagree".

Maria


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xxxAWa
Local time: 08:59
English to German
+ ...
Agree with gad... Nov 2, 2005

gad wrote:

I think things are fine the way they are and there is no reason to make this change. ....


.. or rather "i'm happy with gad's comment".

After all, proz is a site for grown-up professionals, whose members should be able to accept tips from colleagues, because that's what agrees/disagrees are: tips/hints to think something over.

As for the colour: red has a signalling function, and that's what's needed. Otherwise disagrees might be overlooked.

I would not recomment using smilies. Just imagine a Kudoz question with a long list of funny or sad faces decorating the remarks. Would somebody visiting the site for the first time, maybe even looking for a translator or tyring to find more information about a translator they consider to work with, really think they've come across a professional site whose members are able and accomplished translators?


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Steffen Walter  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 08:59
Member (2002)
English to German
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Fully agree, Astrid Nov 2, 2005

Astrid Wanke wrote:
After all, proz is a site for grown-up professionals, whose members should be able to accept tips from colleagues, because that's what agrees/disagrees are: tips/hints to think something over.

As for the colour: red has a signalling function, and that's what's needed. Otherwise disagrees might be overlooked.

I would not recomment using smilies. Just imagine a Kudoz question with a long list of funny or sad faces decorating the remarks. Would somebody visiting the site for the first time, maybe even looking for a translator or tyring to find more information about a translator they consider to work with, really think they've come across a professional site whose members are able and accomplished translators?


We should all be mature and professional enough to take legitimate (i.e. linguistically founded) disagrees as a starting point to think again and possibly learn something new. I've no problem with the colour at all.

In all other cases (disagrees verging on the personal), please contact the moderator of the language pair in question.

I am also strongly opposed to using smileys since these would convey some sort of "playground" image that might compromise the professional stance of the site.

Steffen


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xxxPFB  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:59
English to French
+ ...
Do we need colours? Nov 2, 2005

I too would rather stay away from smiling (or otherwise) faces. I agree with previous messages that say they may not look very professional.

But do we actually need colours? Can't we read? Don't we all know what the words agree, disagree and neutral mean? Do they need to be reinforced by a colour scheme or in any other way?

It seems to me that might be a way of getting rid of the emotional charge that some members associate with the colour red.


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Steffen Walter  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 08:59
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
Not sure, Philippe ... Nov 2, 2005

Philippe Boucry wrote:
But do we actually need colours? Can't we read? Don't we all know what the words agree, disagree and neutral mean? Do they need to be reinforced by a colour scheme or in any other way?


Just imagine agrees, neutrals and disagrees all appeared in black. Wouldn't you want to have a means to somehow distinguish between them? I, for one, do think that the signal effect of the red colour is worth being kept. Makes you think twice next time you post an answer.

I could imagine, though, to somehow alter/subdue the shade of red in which the word "disagree" appears in order to make it a bit more appealing to the eye (I vaguely remember that the old KudoZ design featured a less intrusive red whilst IMHO keeping the signal aspect).

Steffen

[Edited at 2005-11-02 07:55]


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David Brown  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 08:59
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER
Colours Nov 2, 2005

Drifting from the thread slightly. Why not stop using agree, disagree, neutral altogether and replace them all with "comment". It could be more useful feedback for the person who poses the question. Many times I have seen a whole string of "agrees" without any comments whatsoever. I admit that "disagree" and neutral is almost invariably followed by a comment, but this, can be construed as "negative feedback", whereas a "comment", to me, appears positive.


David Brown wrote:

This has probably come up before, but why is "disagree" in red. For me, it has angry connotations. How about putting faces such as for agree, for disagree and :] for neutral.


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Steffen Walter  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 08:59
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
"Comment" would blur the picture Nov 2, 2005

David Brown wrote:
... Why not stop using agree, disagree, neutral altogether and replace them all with "comment". It could be more useful feedback for the person who poses the question. Many times I have seen a whole string of "agrees" without any comments whatsoever. I admit that "disagree" and neutral is almost invariably followed by a comment, but this, can be construed as "negative feedback", whereas a "comment", to me, appears positive.


I'm not in favour of using only "Comment" since this would, IMHO, blur the picture and make things even more difficult to decipher for asker, answerers and commentators. For me, "agree", "neutral" and "disagree" serve as markers/guidance.

Please note that "neutral" and "disagree" require comments by design (you can't post them without a remark).

Steffen


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