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Misuse of "Not for points" option
Thread poster: chopra_2002

chopra_2002  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 21:39
Member (2008)
English to Hindi
+ ...
Nov 11, 2005

Of late, several changes have been made in the KudoZ department of this great site. While I welcome some of the changes, I have got a different opinion about "not for points" option as some askers are misusing the same. They are asking very difficult and tough questions which require a great deal of research for explaining the concepts and yet they don't want to reward the answerers who spend time and make efforts to help them.

Of course, one may advise not to answer such questions but this is not the solution of this issue.

I think that this option should be dispensed with


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Fuad Yahya  Identity Verified
Arabic
+ ...
I have yet to come across a question so designated Nov 11, 2005

... and I have yet to come across an explanation for the rationale behind this option. I find it hard to think of the reasoning that would make an asker choose to restrict his/her own questions in this way. To me it says, "Here is my question. Those of you who expect a reward for helping me with this question other than the sheer pleasure of helping me had better keep their help to themselves." Personally, I would simply walk away from such a question. Now, if KudoZ as a whole was not point-based, my feeling may be different.

On the other hand, I often post answers to "regular" questions and request not to have my answer selected for points. I wish that such an option could be programmed in.

Whatever the reasoning is behind the "not-for-points" option, I think it should be given to the answerer, not the asker.


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chopra_2002  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 21:39
Member (2008)
English to Hindi
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Yes Nov 11, 2005

It is a great suggestion and in that case, it will be "not-for-points answer"


Fuad Yahya wrote:



Whatever the reasoning is behind the "not-for-points" option, I think it should be given to the answerer, not the asker.


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xxxCMJ_Trans
Local time: 18:09
French to English
+ ...
not for points Nov 11, 2005

Many of you will know my views on the points issue - I don't see the point of them at all !!!!

That said, I saw a question the other day in which the asker stated: this question is not for points since I know I will get several good answers (if I remember rightly, it was a complex sentence structure or a turn of phrase that required translation).
Somehow I thought that this was missing the point (here I go again!) altogether....


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GILOU  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 18:09
Member (2002)
English to French
strange attitude Nov 11, 2005

I can't see the motivation of people asking questions 'not for points' except if questions are easy. I guess they are against the system of points but some askers use systematically this option. By overusing the 'not for points' option, this 'weapon' might play against them and finally they might ask questions 'receiving no answer':=)

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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 12:09
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
I like that option Nov 11, 2005

although I don't use it very much and think that helpers deserve the points.

I can think of several cases in which I find it very useful:

In the English-Spanish pair, when you ask an easy question (that might be labelled pro), you easily get 7, 8 or 9 answers while the difference between them is just a small nuance.
I understand that they feel more like getting the points than helping the asker, otherwise people would agree with a previous answer and add their nuance in the peeragreement box.
Sometimes, in the same pair, you get several correct answers because the use of the terms is different in different countries, but you usually discover that too late, (you couldn't guess before asking) so it's too late to change the question into a not for points one. Sometimes the asker needs the answer for different countries and knows that there are going to be several correct answers. It also seems fair to me to make it a not for points question.

In another context, before this new option was available, we had problems in a language pair that has no moderator. There was a student translating a book and posting long sentences. The questions should have been squashed, but they often had many answers before a moderator was notified. I had several exchanges with that student to explain that it was not possible to keep posting so long and so many questions in KudoZ and he explained that he didn't know where else to go, that he needed the help he could get in Proz.com.
Well, since the limits and this option were introduced, he doesn't ask more than 5 questions a day and he decided to label them not for points. This stopped magically all the complaints (and I suppose that he keeps getting answers, as he keeps posting questions). Because what made the other members angry was the feeling that the reason for answering questions that should have been squashed were the points. I think that now we can be affirmative: those who answer feel just like helping the asker.

Claudia

[Edited at 2005-11-11 10:20]


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xxxMihai Badea  Identity Verified
Luxembourg
Member (2004)
English to Romanian
+ ...
“Not for points” option for the answerers Nov 11, 2005

I have nothing against the “Not for points” option for the asker. Anyway, in my pairs it is seldom used.
But, it would be really useful to have a “Not for points” option for the answerers as sometimes you only want to give arguments for an answer that has already been given by a colleague.


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 12:09
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
Misused definition of the "not for points" option Nov 11, 2005

langclinic, I disagree with the title you chose for your posting:

langclinic wrote:
While I welcome some of the changes, I have got a different opinion about "not for points" option as some askers are misusing the same. They are asking very difficult and tough questions which require a great deal of research for explaining the concepts and yet they don't want to reward the answerers who spend time and make efforts to help them.


You seem to think that it was an option for very easy and straightforward questions and this was never said anywhere. You can't refer to it as a "misuse".

Claudia


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xxxMarc P  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:09
German to English
+ ...
Misuse of "Not for points" option Nov 11, 2005

GILLES MEUNIER wrote:

I can't see the motivation of people asking questions 'not for points' except if questions are easy.


The advantage of getting rid of the points business is that a proper discussion of the term and its translation is possible without those involved having to phrase their contributions as if they were trying to win some kind of party game. At present, proper discussion is severely hampered.

Imagine going to some professional for a service, and the professional asking the advice of his colleagues on some particularly difficult point. Instead of simply asking the question and discussing the issue, he starts playing some kind of game in which other doctors, lawyers, computer programmers or whatever try to win "points" with their suggestions. Would that increase your confidence in the information given?

By overusing the 'not for points' option, this 'weapon' might play against them and finally they might ask questions 'receiving no answer':=)


Are you not aware that translators have been discussing terminology in numerous other venues on the Internet for years, without the use of "points"?

Marc


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gianfranco  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 13:09
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
Answers 'not for points' Nov 11, 2005

Mihai Badea wrote:

I have nothing against the “Not for points” option for the asker. Anyway, in my pairs it is seldom used.
But, it would be really useful to have a “Not for points” option for the answerers as sometimes you only want to give arguments for an answer that has already been given by a colleague.


I agree. It is a missing feature, and participants are now (mis)using the space provided as "ask the asker" to have mini forums and discussions about or around a linguistic problem when they don't want to post their contribution as a regular answer.

This feature could be used, of course, by all ProZ.com members who wish to contribute to the solution of a linguistic problem, but not to participate to the KudoZ points system.

In my opinion, the two features, asking and answering outside of the points system, should be there available to use freely, according to personal preferences.


Gianfranco




[Edited at 2005-11-11 15:31]


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Fiona Gonçalves  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 17:09
Member
Portuguese to English
+ ...
I like the not for points option Nov 11, 2005

I like the not for points option because sometimes you don't actually want a colleague to suggest a translation for a term. Rather, you are just seeking confirmation of what you already believe to be the correct term but have just been struck by a moment of doubt. It doesn't seem to me to make sense that you ask "Should I use "such-and-such", then a colleague posts "such-and-such" as the answer and gets points for it.

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GILOU  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 18:09
Member (2002)
English to French
not for points Nov 11, 2005

Are you not aware that translators have been discussing terminology in numerous other venues on the Internet for years, without the use of "points"?

It gives a stake, that's all. It's like when you play poker, you can gamble with beans. I have already answered to questions with this option, it's not the point. But if they have problems with giving points, they can give 1 symbolic point....


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Derek Gill Franßen  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 18:09
German to English
+ ...
Other ways of doing it... Nov 11, 2005

MarcPrior wrote:
re you not aware that translators have been discussing terminology in numerous other venues on the Internet for years, without the use of "points"?

Marc[/quote]

Hi Marc, I understand and respect your view, but I think that it is a good thing that not all sites are alike. This site just happens to have the point system and the competition that this creates.

I'm sure there are pros and cons to both systems, but I - for one - feel particularly attracted to the quickness this system seems to bring to the discussion. If I need endless discussion I can also visit one of the other sites that don't offer points - there are definitely advantages to be had by doing it that way too.

More often than not, however, I need an answer pronto (and I'm willing to award points to get it)!

Fuad Yahya wrote:
the other hand, I often post answers to "regular" questions and request not to have my answer selected for points. I wish that such an option could be programmed in.
[...][/quote]

I second that motion.

[Edited at 2005-11-11 14:44]


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xxxMarc P  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:09
German to English
+ ...
Misuse of "Not for points" option Nov 11, 2005

Derek Gill Franßen wrote:

I think that it is a good thing that not all sites are alike.


I have to admit that I'm in favour of choice.

Marc


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Alfredo Tutino  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:09
English to Italian
+ ...
I second it too! Nov 11, 2005

Fuad Yahya wrote:
the other hand, I often post answers to "regular" questions and request not to have my answer selected for points. I wish that such an option could be programmed in.
[...][/quote]

I second that motion.

[Edited at 2005-11-11 14:44][/quote]


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