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attitude of other users
Thread poster: Mary Murata

Mary Murata  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:03
Japanese to English
Feb 13, 2006

I have used Kudoz on several occasions when I have been stuck with a difficult term that I cannot find in my ususal resources. And without fail I have received speedy and accurate replies. Thanks to all those who helped.
Recently, however, one of my queries was greeted with a sniffy "hardly a 'pro' question".
I thought that the purpose of the Kudoz was to help each other, in the spirit of a community, not to patronise other people because they don't know as much as you.
This is the very reason I left a Yahoo translators group, because of their attitude to a new commer.
People ask a question on Kudoz because they have a genuine need and not because of some frivolity.
Let's help each other out and not try to show off or undermine other people.


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telefpro
Local time: 20:33
Portuguese to English
+ ...
It happens Feb 13, 2006

On the other hand, sometimes, I see questions marked as non- pro while they are highly complicated.
We have to take these things in stride. You are just helping.


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Alvaro Gonzalez
English to Spanish
+ ...
agree Feb 13, 2006

in the same line, recently I received a private mail from one of the "platinum" users, saying more or less that I couldn't disagree with somebody so knowledgable as him. Forget about those answers. In every single group of people there are always black sheeps. Gratefully they are not majority. Best regards.

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Wenke Geddert  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:03
Member (2004)
English to German
+ ...
Pro & Non-Pro Feb 13, 2006

Mary

The classification should be straightforward: "pro" - after all you are asking the question as a professional translator.

The following definition is from the ProZ website:

"Deciding between 'PRO' and 'Non-PRO'
When deciding whether to label a question 'Non-PRO' or 'PRO', use the following guideline:
Almost any question asked by a professional translator should be marked 'PRO'. The non-PRO category is intended for term questions that any bilingual person can answer, such as 'I love you' and the like.
If there is any doubt in your mind as to whether a question should be categorized as PRO or non-PRO, go with PRO."

If you feel that the comments made are inappropriate, please contact your moderator for the respective language combination.

Hope this helps, and don't let this put you off from using the site - I find it invaluable!

Kind regards

Wenke


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John Walsh  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 16:03
Member (2004)
Italian to English
just ignore them Feb 13, 2006

Mary Murata wrote:

Recently, however, one of my queries was greeted with a sniffy "hardly a 'pro' question".

whether it's pro or not is up to you.



alvgon wrote:

in the same line, recently I received a private mail from one of the "platinum" users, saying more or less that I couldn't disagree with somebody so knowledgable as him.

Next time just tell him to get a life. He has the problem, not you.


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Sylvia Smith  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:03
French to English
thick skin Feb 13, 2006

Hello Mary,

I completely understand why you would be put off by such a snide remark! Unfortunately, there will always be people who enjoy making themselves feel superior by putting others down. We just have to accept that posting on an open Forum such as ProZ opens us up to such remarks, and put on a bit of a thick skin. That is, learn to not take such remarks personally.

John said it perfectly: "He has the problem, not you."

And just to throw in my 2 cents, there is absolutely nothing wrong with posting a Non-Pro question. Non-Pro is not an insult! For example, sometimes you know what a phrase means but you are looking for a snazzy way to render it. Or you know something is not technically complicated, but your mind is completely blocked! This has happened to all of us, I'm sure.

ProZ is a wonderful support community, despite a few bad apples.

Cheers,
Sylvia


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mstkwasa
Local time: 15:03
English to Japanese
+ ...
Two issues Feb 13, 2006

There are two issues: 1) members' behaviour towards others and 2) pro or non-pro question.

As regards 1) we could do with more civility and the comment by this particular person was wholly unnecessary - though I am not sure your rejoinder to this person was the most constructive way to establish "the spirit of a community" using the "note from asker to answerer" given this person commented but not answered. However and regarding 2), the question was voted non-pro by three members (the person in question did not vote since it had probably been changed already) and I would concur. I believe that the voting procedure has been discussed on various occasions but I am content with the current system that stops a question from being changed from one to the other by a single vote but relies on three.

[Edited at 2006-02-15 00:23]


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Sylvia Smith  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:03
French to English
mstkwasa has a good point Feb 13, 2006

mstkwasa wrote:

...though I am not sure your rejoinder to this person was the most constructive way to establish "the spirit of a community" using the "note from asker to answerer" given this person commented but not answered.


That is a good point (I did not see that when I posted). We do need to keep things in perspective and be civil in how we deal with harsh comments as well. Once again, a thick skin is essential on open forums.


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Mary Murata  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:03
Japanese to English
TOPIC STARTER
pro or non pro? Feb 13, 2006

I have always assumed that a "pro" question was in reference to a translation I was being paid for, as opposed to, say, homework for school or whatever.
I don't ask these questions lightly (I like to think that most translators have better things to do than answer my questions) and I only ask when all my usual sources and internet searches have proved fruitless.
This applies also to the query that received the sniffy reply.
I think on this occasion I was just a little taken aback by the attitude of the person concerned because in the past I have only ever received helpful and accurate replies.


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John Walsh  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 16:03
Member (2004)
Italian to English
Don't worry about it Feb 13, 2006

Mary Murata wrote:


I think on this occasion I was just a little taken aback by the attitude of the person concerned



she probably just had a bad day.


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Karin Adamczyk  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 10:03
Member
French to English
Sometimes you have a small bit in a foreign language Feb 13, 2006

Sylvia Smith wrote:

And just to throw in my 2 cents, there is absolutely nothing wrong with posting a Non-Pro question. Non-Pro is not an insult! For example, sometimes you know what a phrase means but you are looking for a snazzy way to render it. Or you know something is not technically complicated, but your mind is completely blocked! This has happened to all of us, I'm sure.



Don't forget that you can sometimes have a small bit in your document that is in a foreign language. This might still be considered a Pro question, but maybe not to native speakers. In any case, others don't know all the details of your project.



ProZ is a wonderful support community, despite a few bad apples.



Exactly. Others should not make such comments. Doing so does nothing for ones professional image

Take care,
Karin Adamczyk

[Edited at 2006-02-13 11:58]


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Mary Murata  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:03
Japanese to English
TOPIC STARTER
I agree Feb 13, 2006

Proz is definately a good community and a good resource for us all. We cannot all be experts in everything and it is a great help to know that out there, there are lots of folk willing to help us out of a tight spot.
I was wrong to snap back at the person and, if you are reading this, I apologise.


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gad
United States
Local time: 10:03
Member
French to English
You said it! Feb 13, 2006

Mary Murata wrote:

I thought that the purpose of the Kudoz was to help each other, in the spirit of a community, not to patronise other people because they don't know as much as you.
This is the very reason I left a Yahoo translators group, because of their attitude to a new commer.
People ask a question on Kudoz because they have a genuine need and not because of some frivolity.
Let's help each other out and not try to show off or undermine other people.


I have no idea why some individuals, who consider themselves to be PROFESSIONALS to boot, find it necessary to be so nasty and practically insulting on KudoZ. I know that I am not the only one who feels this way, but lately it has really gotten to me, as I too thought that the purpose of this site was one of collaboration, which might entail some degree of mutual respect. I see a great deal of resentment, though, from people who act as if the site belongs to them and them only. I just find this attitude unreal, especially since, not only how do they know who they are insulting (it could very well be an agency, for one thing), but also, how do they know who else might be reading that and be turned off by their attitude - I know that if I read someone being superior and self-important on KudoZ, I would NEVER give that person two words worth of work, that's for sure. Now, they may not need ME, personally, for work, but what if there is someone on the site who potentially could be someone they might run into and need for future work, yet they have turned that person off with their nasty attitude towards others?

Of course, I'm just talking about the practical reason for someone not to be completely rude, nasty and disrespectful. The actual reason for someone not to be that way is because it's just plain wrong. I also have never had Henry or any site admin person be rude, snide or disrespectful, so if the staff is not that way then I highly doubt they ever intended for their users (or members, whatever) to be that way!

Thank you so much for starting this thread, btw. I'm sick and tired of reading threads here on this forum that have to do with how some people have such nerve posting certain questions, and also such posts are often coupled with speculation about how those people got certain jobs in the first place. Honestly, this makes it clear that the person who is resenting the other person asking questions is simply resenting the fact that the asker has work - and perhaps if they focused more on marketing instead of writing complaining threads ad nauseum, then the problem would indeed be solved.

Such nastiness really has no place here. No matter what one's level of knowledge, I don't see how a person can consider himself a professional if there is this nasty attitude projected.

[Edited at 2006-02-13 17:26]


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gad
United States
Local time: 10:03
Member
French to English
This is interesting Feb 13, 2006

Wenke Geddert wrote:

If there is any doubt in your mind as to whether a question should be categorized as PRO or non-PRO, go with PRO."



I was not even aware of this, but this is quite interesting, as I highly doubt that some people abide by this.


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xxxsarahl
Local time: 07:03
English to French
+ ...
Totally agree Feb 13, 2006

Please stay with us, Mary, we also have nice people on this site.

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