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answer found elsewhere
Thread poster: marie-christine périé

marie-christine périé  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 09:32
English to French
+ ...
Aug 6, 2006

Incidentally... Would it be too much to ask those who close questions without grading, especially when the reason is "answer found elsewhere", to let everybody interested benefit by that answer?
Some may have done researches to help them, maybe suggested an answer, or just thought: Yes, I wonder what's the best way to translate that.
I find it frustrating to see that some questions are "just-closed".
Every time the use of Kudoz is discussed, learning is mentioned as one of the main reasons to hang around.
The askers might even be encouraged to enter the "elsewhere found" answer in the KOG for everybody benefit.
What do you think?
Have a nice Sunday!

This should be in the Kudoz topic. If someone knows how to move it, I'll be grateful!

Marie-Christine

[Edited at 2006-08-06 08:17]


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Daniela Zambrini  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 09:32
Member (2005)
English to Italian
+ ...
suggestion Aug 6, 2006

marie-christine périé wrote:

Incidentally... Would it be too much to ask those who close questions without grading, especially when the reason is "answer found elsewhere", to let everybody interested benefit by that answer?

(...)

The askers might even be encouraged to enter the "elsewhere found" answer in the KOG for everybody benefit.
What do you think?


I definitely agree, though this happens very rarely in the IT-EN-IT pair.

My suggestion would be to allow this option ONLY if the answer found elsewhere is entered into the KOG.
I imagine it should be feasibile from a technical point of view.

Ciao, D.


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Nikki Graham  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:32
Partial member (2003)
Spanish to English
No, it's not too much to ask Aug 6, 2006

marie-christine périé wrote:

Incidentally... Would it be too much to ask those who close questions without grading, especially when the reason is "answer found elsewhere", to let everybody interested benefit by that answer?


I totally agree with you. They must have used something in their translation and it would be of interest to all to know what it was.


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Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Partial member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
I am under the impression Aug 6, 2006

that this reason us used many a time instead of "no satisfactory answer" (if at least one answer is there). Maybe the asker thinks it is more polite...

But YES, it is highly irritating and I totally agree!


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Susy Ordaz  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:32
Portuguese to English
+ ...
100% right Aug 6, 2006

You´re right.

How many times have we researched a term and after preparing an answer it gets discarded??

I too think we should be able to see what the answer was even if it was found elsewhere.

Proz is a place where sharing takes place and whenthis specifically happens, I personally feel cheated..almost betrayed...

Susy Ordaz


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writeaway  Identity Verified

Local time: 09:32
Partial member (2003)
French to English
+ ...
My feelings exactly Aug 6, 2006

Susy Ordaz wrote:

You´re right.

How many times have we researched a term and after preparing an answer it gets discarded??

I too think we should be able to see what the answer was even if it was found elsewhere.

Proz is a place where sharing takes place and whenthis specifically happens, I personally feel cheated..almost betrayed...

Susy Ordaz


Have seen the case of someone who closed like this and refused to give any answer when asked what s/he used. I had spent 15 minutes looking around and was intrigued to know the outcome. But no way, not even after repeated requests.
Then shortly afterward, that same person had the nerve to ask another colleague the same thing for a question that had been closed the same way (and in which the person in question hadn't even participated) and the other colleague answered immediately! Some people see Proz and Kudoz as a place where you take and grab all you can get, but where you don't offer anything that could possibly help others. Fortunately this type of person is not at all typical of people who participate on the site, but even one person like this is one too many imo.


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Mats Wiman  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 09:32
Member (2000)
German to Swedish
+ ...
A very good suggestion Aug 6, 2006

The least one can do after maybe several colleagues have tried to help you is to demand to be enlightened about what was the end result and "Found elsewere" is truly unsatisfactory and in essence rude.
Therefore that option ought to be changed into at least:
"The word/phrase I finally used was:........................................."
"Reason:....................................................................................."


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Ivana de Sousa Santos  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 08:32
French to Portuguese
+ ...
Why this happens... IMO Aug 6, 2006

In my opinion, I think this happens because you are not asked to justify the closing of a question by making a written comment.

Yesterday I closed a question without grading because I found the answer elsewhere (with the text's author, actually).

After that, I added a note explaining why I had closed the question and what was the author's answer in that case (because it seemed to be thr same as with some other context).

There should be a way to explain that after closing the question. I think many people don't get the trouble to do that after closing. They just close and that's it. Maybe most of them don't even think about it.

Why not inserting a line below where people copuld write something? This would probably require a modification in the closing question set up, but it could be worth it.

Also, in my case yesterday, the question was too technical and I felt sorry I couldn't contribute to the glossary with those specific answers.

I also think there should be a way of doing so as well, after closing a question whose answer you found elsewhere.


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xxxtazdog
Spain
Local time: 09:32
Spanish to English
+ ...
explanation should be mandatory Aug 6, 2006

This is a pet peeve of mine, too, and I've had the same experience as others: when I've asked an asker who closed a question without grading to please share the translation s/he finally used, I've usually received no response whatsoever. I think this is extremely rude, and I usually add that person right to my filtered list.

The other thing that mystifies me is "other" as a reason for closing a question without grading.

I think an explanation should be mandatory in both of these cases.


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xxxmediamatrix
Local time: 05:32
Spanish to English
+ ...
Some askers are their own worst enemies ... Aug 6, 2006

I guess it happens to all of us once in a while - and some askers seem to make a habit of closing questions too quickly (sometimes after only 10 or 15 minutes) and/or closing without grading with 'Answer found elsewhere'.

A couple of days ago someone in the spa-eng zone (who's questions show he is clearly out of his depth with his current job, incidentally) asked half a dozen questions and got some rather comprehensive answers from me, some of which he later selected as best answer. He even made some polite comments about my contributions - that's something that is always appreciated (where it's justified, of course).

Following that positive experience* it would have been sensible for the asker to wait 24 hours to see if I was able/willing/available to help with other questions, too.

I came across another of his questions 2 hours after he'd posted it - a consequence of the 6-hour time zone shift twixt Europe and Chile. The two previous answers were clearly not very adequate, so I posted a proper explanation. Then, when the page refreshed, there it was: "Answer found elsewhere" - and that had evidently been posted by the asker while I was busy preparing my answer.

To be fair, the asker did make a KOG entry with the term he'd found. But it was totally wrong!

Of course, once an asker has closed his question, he never goes back to see if there has been any additional feedback; in this case, if he did, he'd find a 'note to asker' informing him that his answer found elsewhere is wrong and pointing him to my 60 words on the subject.

So now, not only have I wasted my time trying to help the asker - I must also spend more time correcting the KOG. If I were a points-graber** I guess I'd be infuriated - as it is, I'm just annoyed ...

In addition to requiring the asker to share their self-found answers (where that is the case), I suggest that the 'recommendation' to wait 24 hours before grading/closing should be converted into a constraint imposed by the interface software.

MediaMatrix

* Positive, that is, for the asker. At the end of the day, all I got out of it was the satisfaction of having helped the asker's client produce more accurate documents. And in the subject-matter in question, accuracy saves lives...

** I'll become a points-grabber when we can trade them in for Mars Bars!


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Nicolas Coyer  Identity Verified
Colombia
Local time: 03:32
Spanish to French
+ ...
not reliable source Aug 6, 2006

I could understand why in some cases one would want to close a question without entering the answer found elsewhere:
I once had to close a question bc I had already delivered the translation. I did not enter the answer found (at first, since someone requested it afterwards) bc I did not find the only source encountered to be completely reliable. However, I had a tight deadline and the client did not provide feedback regarding terminology...


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writeaway  Identity Verified

Local time: 09:32
Partial member (2003)
French to English
+ ...
Excellent suggestion/solution Aug 6, 2006

Mats Wiman wrote:

The least one can do after maybe several colleagues have tried to help you is to demand to be enlightened about what was the end result and "Found elsewere" is truly unsatisfactory and in essence rude.
Therefore that option ought to be changed into at least:
"The word/phrase I finally used was:........................................."
"Reason:....................................................................................."


This would be great.


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xxxdf49f
France
Local time: 09:32
seconded... Aug 6, 2006

writeaway wrote:

Mats Wiman wrote:

The least one can do after maybe several colleagues have tried to help you is to demand to be enlightened about what was the end result and "Found elsewere" is truly unsatisfactory and in essence rude.
Therefore that option ought to be changed into at least:
"The word/phrase I finally used was:........................................."
"Reason:....................................................................................."

This would be great.


I second that very constructive suggestion.
...now if we can get our voices heard, that would be great...
Do you think the site staff are all on vacation? seems there's nobody on the other end of the line lately?
dominique


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Mats Wiman  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 09:32
Member (2000)
German to Swedish
+ ...
I am flabbergasted Aug 6, 2006

df49f wrote:

writeaway wrote:

Mats Wiman wrote:

The least one can do after maybe several colleagues have tried to help you is to demand to be enlightened about what was the end result and "Found elsewere" is truly unsatisfactory and in essence rude.
Therefore that option ought to be changed into at least:
"The word/phrase I finally used was:........................................."
"Reason:....................................................................................."

This would be great.


I second that very constructive suggestion.
...now if we can get our voices heard, that would be great...
Do you think the site staff are all on vacation? seems there's nobody on the other end of the line lately?
dominique


I thank you for this constructive criticism.


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Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Partial member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
Yes, indeed... Aug 6, 2006

df49f wrote:

I second that very constructive suggestion.
...now if we can get our voices heard, that would be great...
Do you think the site staff are all on vacation? seems there's nobody on the other end of the line lately?
dominique


... there is much silence lately on the other side....:-D


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