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KudoZ: Donation and Grading
Thread poster: Chinoise

Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:54
English to Chinese
+ ...
Nov 3, 2006

Hi all,

I've been a kudoZ leader in my language pairs (Chinese, English-Chinese, French>Chinese, etc.) for a few years, but I've always been thinking of donating my kudoZ points to those who deserve them. The major reason for doing this is that in most cases I earn the points simply because I answer the question faster than other people do, which, of course, does not necessarily mean my answer is always the best. So, I wonder if we KudoZ leaders (as well as the KudoZ moderators) could donate our earned points at our own discretion to those whose answers are believed to be equally good or even better. Would it be possible to have a button added somewhere on this site so that we might click on it and transfer our points to others?

Thanks in advance for your input, folks!


[Edited at 2006-11-04 02:58]


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xxxFrancis Lee
Local time: 11:54
German to English
+ ...
An admirable suggestion but ... Nov 3, 2006

we do not live in a perfect world ...

I don't know how this would work in my pair (Ger-Eng), because there is an increasing tendency towards the very opposite, i.e. individuals whose sole aim is to get the points, not to help the Asker.
I recently gave an Agree to a colleague who posted the same answer as someone else on the grounds that, although 1-2 minutes later, he had included some concrete input/reasoning and even a Web reference.
The "first" inidividual - who had simply written (I forget exactly) "should be OK" as an explanation - then gave an Agree to the second person. BUT he commented in a perfectly friendly tone that the best "way" would be to initially provide an answer and then post an addendum with an explanation and/or references.
Since then, that individual has basically been posting answers with an initial explanation of ".", with the sole purpose of being the first to answer. This is pathetic behavior IMO and there are many more like him.

The words "Please select the most helpful answer to your question"
... imply that Answerers, too, should be thinking primarily about helping the colleague in question. Yes - I do care about "getting the points", but only where I feel I've deserved them for a reason other than/in addition to being the fastest (which in my case is not because I type in an answer ASAP).
Many others post an Answer while there is still no sufficient context available. They then seem surprised when I give them a Disagree after subsequent information from the Asker shows their suggestion to be wrong.

Charity's a great thing - but for it to be fully effective you have to cut out the parasites. (yes, that word is perhaps too strong, but you know what I mean)

But I certainly admire your standpoint.

[Edited at 2006-11-03 13:47]


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TonyTK
German to English
+ ...
Hand 'em over Nov 3, 2006

Francis Lee wrote:

we do not live in a perfect world ...



Talking about perfect worlds, where are my 4 points for the excellent answer I gave you days and days and days ago? My wife's been asking about them.

Alternatively, I'd be quite willing to take some of Chinoise's off his/her hands.

Before I forget, I think answerers who shoot from the hip and don't bother to even write a half-decent sentence in the comment box to show they have an least an inkling of what the question is about should be tarred and feathered. But that's just by the way.

Tony
P.S. Don't forget about the points - my wife's out getting winter tyres put on her car but she'll be back soon.



[Bearbeitet am 2006-11-03 15:17]


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Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:54
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER
Very insightful! Thanks, Francis. Nov 3, 2006

Francis Lee wrote:
I don't know how this would work in my pair (Ger-Eng), because there is an increasing tendency towards the very opposite, i.e. individuals whose sole aim is to get the points, not to help the Asker.

Yes, there might be some people who answer questions for the sole purpose of winning points. IMHO, by doing this, they gain and lose at the same time. KudoZ is designed to be a win-win game for all parties. If some people keep winning KudoZ points and others keep getting “question closed” notices, this game will eventually encourage the minority and discourage the majority to take part in it.

The words "Please select the most helpful answer to your question"... imply that Answerers, too, should be thinking primarily about helping the colleague in question. Yes - I do care about "getting the points", but only where I feel I've deserved them for a reason other than/in addition to being the fastest (which in my case is not because I type in an answer ASAP).
Many others post an Answer while there is still no sufficient context available. They then seem surprised when I give them a Disagree after subsequent information from the Asker shows their suggestion to be wrong.

Agree. It's sensibly understandable that most answerers care about “getting the points” while helping other colleagues with their questions, the reason being that they spend their time and energy helping others. However, I agree with you that one should get the points he or she deserves for whatever reason there should be other than rapidity. As one of the fastest answerers, providing correct answers and validated references at the same time, my typical concern is: If I, like a few others, always answer questions very fast, how could other peers get a chance of gaining their well-deserved points? That's the very reason why I am here raising this issue and expressing my willingness to donate my KudoZ points.


Charity's a great thing - but for it to be fully effective you have to cut out the parasites. (yes, that word is perhaps too strong, but you know what I mean)

Good point. To facilitate its effectiveness, we might need to work out a way to find out which kind of people meet the criteria for being donated.

But I certainly admire your standpoint

Thanks for your kind words. Much appreciated.

[Edited at 2006-11-03 16:30]


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Tina Vonhof  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 03:54
Member (2006)
Dutch to English
+ ...
slow down Nov 3, 2006

Maybe you could just slow down and stop answering so quickly?

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Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:54
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER
My pleasure, but... Nov 3, 2006

Unfortunately, German>English is not my working language pair. If you were one of my colleagues working in a Chinese-related language pair, I would definitely consider donating my KudoZ points to you provided that you meet the standards (to be set by the ProZ.com staff)... Thanks for your input, Tony.

TonyTK wrote:

Alternatively, I'd be quite willing to take some of Chinoise's off his/her hands.



[Edited at 2006-11-03 17:05]


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Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:54
English to Chinese
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Thanks, Tina. Nov 3, 2006

Agree. Slowing down would be a good way to wait for good or better suggestions, although being able to provide quick answers along with some good references is definitely not a bad thing.

Tina Vonhof wrote:

Maybe you could just slow down and stop answering so quickly?


[Edited at 2006-11-03 17:57]


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Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 11:54
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Rewarding points to the first helpful answer leads to a certain behaviour Nov 3, 2006

Dear Francis,

I guess you're talking about me here:

Francis Lee wrote:

The "first" inidividual - who had simply written (I forget exactly) "should be OK" as an explanation - then gave an Agree to the second person. BUT he commented in a perfectly friendly tone that the best "way" would be to initially provide an answer and then post an addendum with an explanation and/or references.


I am still quite a beginner with proz.com, and still learning. The comment you are referring to was written in "a perfectly friendly tone" because it was meant to be. It was a serious suggestion.

I learned the behaviour you criticize from other esteemed prozians, without thinking all too much about it, and reading your post, I must say that I feel a bit guilty indeed. But:


Since then, that individual has basically been posting answers with an initial explanation of ".", with the sole purpose of being the first to answer.


This is just wrong: While I indeed did sometimes post an answer without elaborating extensively, saying that I "basically" did so is strongly exaggerated. Also, alleging that I did so without having in mind to help the asker seems a bit rude...

I'd like to hear other's voices about this question, but I agree with you that points should be awarded to the most helpful answer, which does not necessarily have to be the first correct one. For the future, I will try to follow your route (unless I have reasons not to do so).

Kind regards,
Erik



[Bearbeitet am 2006-11-03 19:55]

[Bearbeitet am 2006-11-03 20:30]


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Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:54
English to Chinese
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Let's stick to this topic... Nov 3, 2006

Dear efreitag,

I am not quite clear about what you folks are talking about here … Anyway, can we stick to this topic and talk more about how to donate our kudoZ points? Like I said, I simply feel an urge to do so. My idea of donating KudoZ points was inspired by the possibility of browniz donation. As you all know, excess browniz can be donated only to those who have fewer than 4000 browniz points and are willing to go Platinum within one week after receiving the 4000 browniz (an equivalent of a 25% discount on ProZ.com membership). BTW, If any of you are interested in this membership discount, please feel free to contact me. Well, in this thread, I hope we can concentrate on the proposal of " KudoZ Points Donation", which, in my opinion, is easier to implement since we won't require the KudoZ recipients to go platinum upon receiving them (Perhaps we can even require that the recipients be members already before receiving the points!). What do you think, folks?

efreitag wrote:
I am still quite a beginner with proz.com, and still learning. The comment you are referring to was written in "a perfectly friendly tone" because it was meant to be. It was a serious suggestion.


[Edited at 2006-11-03 23:57]


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Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:54
English to Chinese
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I agree with you on this point... Nov 3, 2006

Generally, the person with the most helpful answer to a KudoZ question should be given the four KudoZ points. Besides, if two or three people give equally good answers to the same question almost simultaneously, usually it’s the first answerer who gets the 4 kudoZ points. What I have been trying to explain is that I have always been involved in the latter scenario as the first answerer. Certainly, I am happy with the points I have earned. But, in the meantime, I also clearly know: If it hadn't been for me, another answerer could have earned the 4 points. Thus, under this circumstance, I would like to donate my 4 points…

efreitag wrote:
I'd like to hear other's voices about this question, but I agree with you that points should be awarded to the most helpful answer, which does not necessarily have to be the first correct one. For the future, I will try to follow your route (unless I have reasons not to do so).


[Edited at 2006-11-04 00:14]


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Enrique Cavalitto
Local time: 06:54
SITE STAFF
We are not considering this option Nov 20, 2006

We will soon publish our general plan on KudoZ, that will focus mainly on quality issues but also on reducing the "race" factor.

On the other hand we are not considering implementing any form of KudoZ donation or transference.

Regards,
Enrique


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Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:54
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Just saw your reply... Nov 20, 2006

Thanks very much, Enrique, for your comprehensive reply. That sounds really nice. I shall be very interested in knowing more about this general plan...

Regards,
Betty

Enrique wrote:

We will soon publish our general plan on KudoZ, that will focus mainly on quality issues but also on reducing the "race" factor.

On the other hand we are not considering implementing any form of KudoZ donation or transference.

Regards,
Enrique


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