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just_closed (no acceptable answer found) KudoZ questions and the glossaries
Thread poster: Marcelo Silveyra

Marcelo Silveyra
United States
Local time: 00:57
Member (2007)
German to English
+ ...
May 25, 2007

Hi everyone,

Recently, I contributed a couple of answers to two questions about a technical document (Spanish to English) that had suspiciously Spanglish-like words in it (they were definitely not "official" Spanish words). Since my offered translation derived from the assumption that the terms were Spanglish, of which I couldn't be 100% sure, I set a confidence level of 1, and the questions were "just closed" due to there not being an acceptable answer.
Now, before anyone gets the wrong idea, this is not a question about points. The points don't really matter and if the asker thought that the answers weren't convincing enough, then that was a perfectly valid decision.
My question is about glossaries. I imagine that the translator in question provided some solution for the document that they were translating when delivering the job, and not only would I want to know what his solution was, but I think that it would be very helpful if it could somehow be told to everyone so that we have a future reference if we run into the same term. I don't know if this exists, but is there an option when "just closing" that lets the asker tell everyone what his final solution was? And if not, do you think it would be a good idea? I personally think it would be a very valuable option, as it would keep questions from "just hanging," and thus add, if not to the glossaries, at least to the database of translation solutions that we have with KudoZ! (I must add that I also think that asker-responder interaction and the resulting process of thought and answer development is sometimes just as valuable as the actual answers themselves!)


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Henry Hinds  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:57
English to Spanish
+ ...
Flying May 26, 2007

Going back to some of your other comments, I would venture that many "translators" (not worthy of the name) who have closed questions with no resolution would not be able to contribute any solution they might have found, because they just passed right over it and kept on flying.

Don't know it? Skip it.


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Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 02:57
German to English
Welcome to the club May 26, 2007

Marcelo Silveyra wrote:

My question is about glossaries. I imagine that the translator in question provided some solution for the document that they were translating when delivering the job, and not only would I want to know what his solution was, but I think that it would be very helpful if it could somehow be told to everyone so that we have a future reference if we run into the same term.


I think Henry hit the nail on the head, Marcelo. The people who do the kinds of things you describe are most often in over their heads. They are dabbling in translation, and it is my belief that they will not last long. Before long they will find it harder and harder to dupe clients or will simply realize that they are not yet ready for prime time. And the jobs will dry up.

People who close questions without telling translators who tried to help what the outcome was tend to just want a quick "answer" to their question: not a good translation, just something they can plug in quickly. They also tend not to provide sufficient context or respond to queries from their helpers for context. They also tend to close their questions as soon as the first answer comes in.

Like you, I am a believer in the glossaries we are trying to build here. I see KudoZ as a community effort to satisfy the asker's immediate needs and at the same time to add something worthwhile to the glossaries that can be used by thousands of future users.

I don't believe these two aims can be separated. That's why I've always been an advocate of not allowing the asker to close his/her question for at least 24 hours, so that the full KudoZ process can take place (including peer comments) before the term is entered in the glossary.

And yes, they most definitely have an option of telling us what their final solution was - it's just too much trouble. When I come across "un-colleagues" I just ignore them in the future.


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Rad Graban  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:57
English to Slovak
+ ...
Agree with all of you May 26, 2007

Just got 3 KudoZ points today for the answer to the question posted.

The only response.

As there was no glossary entry (my confidence level was only 3), I was advised in the "congratulation" e-mail, to make the entry into the glossary to earn 10 KudoZ points.

How could I possibly do that if the asker never let anybody know what term she had used in the end?

I was trying to help and would love to know what term was used in the end to build my personal dictionary/glossary, but obviously some people don't look at things the same way.


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Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 09:57
Member
Italian to English
But if your translation of the term is correct... May 26, 2007

Rad I think you are missing the point. Once a KudoZ question has been closed the asker has the option to make a glossary entry. If he or she does not do so then you as the answerer can do so. It does not matter what term the asker used in the end - if you are confident about your answer then why not make the entry?

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Yolande Haneder  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:57
German to French
+ ...
Now I know why i am ignored May 26, 2007

Kim Metzger wrote:

And yes, they most definitely have an option of telling us what their final solution was - it's just too much trouble. When I come across "un-colleagues" I just ignore them in the future.



Sometimes this did happened to me, I closed the question saying "I found elsewhere". Since some of the tasks are quite urgent and none is answering, I "have" to write something and make my best efforts to get a solution. I am however on my own on this solution and I will surely not enter and publicize it for it being a second best solution (because I don't have weeks to look for).

Maybe if you would ask me per E-mail, I might tell you but I don't want have my name tied to the solution on some particular case for somebody to link it and comment on it when he/she finds better or any cased linked to and from my profile.


Finally I get accustomed of not getting any answer from Kudoz for a particular language and I will probably not start to fill any glossary either.

My 2 cents.

Yolande


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Nesrin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:57
English to Arabic
+ ...
It's all about being considerate May 26, 2007

Yolande Haneder wrote:

Sometimes this did happened to me, I closed the question saying "I found elsewhere". Since some of the tasks are quite urgent and none is answering, I "have" to write something and make my best efforts to get a solution. I am however on my own on this solution and I will surely not enter and publicize it for it being a second best solution (because I don't have weeks to look for).



I think you're missing the point here Yolande. We don't REALLY care which answer you used in the end. This is not just about people being curious. If indeed it is, in your opinion, not good enough, you don't have to publicise it.

But it's about courtesy and appreciation of your colleagues' efforts to help you. Simply closing the question saying "Answer found elsewhere" is, in my personal opinion, quite rude and inconsiderate.

You should either 1) put in a note explaining why you're closing without grading (preferably stating what term you used, esp. if you think it's correct), or 2) just keep it open, again explaining to the colleagues why you're keeping it open (someone might still come up with a correct answer, for the benefit of the Kudoz community, even after your job has been submitted.)


I also agree with Marcelo that the asker closing a question without grading should be asked to make a glossary entry, for the benefit of everyone else.


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Rad Graban  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:57
English to Slovak
+ ...
That's the thing May 26, 2007

Fiona Peterson wrote:

... if you are confident about your answer then why not make the entry?


I put the confidence level 3 because I wasn't (and I'm still not) so sure. I would love to know what term was used in the end in all postings just to know if my answer was accepted or whether the translator came up with something different, which can be better and more appropriate, and I could use it it the future.

Rad


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Denise Miranda
Local time: 05:57
English to Portuguese
+ ...
At a first glance, it is a despicable practice. Jun 4, 2007

Of course there are cases and cases, but in general, I think it is unconsiderate to "just close" answers without even telling colleagues what the chosen term was.

There are also some cases when the question is open for days and then one answerer provides a very good link with all the tips for the correct answer. Of course the translator has to adapt the term to his/her specific context. What does he/she do after all the colleague's research? Just closes! Is it fair?

As Marcelo said, it's not a matter of points, but there should be more consideration!

[Edited at 2007-06-04 14:05]


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xxxFrancis Lee
Local time: 09:57
German to English
+ ...
Ignorance? Jun 5, 2007

Nesrin wrote:
But it's about courtesy and appreciation of your colleagues' efforts to help you. Simply closing the question saying "Answer found elsewhere" is, in my personal opinion, quite rude and inconsiderate.

You should either 1) put in a note explaining why you're closing without grading (preferably stating what term you used, esp. if you think it's correct), or 2) just keep it open, again explaining to the colleagues why you're keeping it open (someone might still come up with a correct answer, for the benefit of the Kudoz community, even after your job has been submitted.)


I also agree with Marcelo that the asker closing a question without grading should be asked to make a glossary entry, for the benefit of everyone else.


I agree with all these points.
Although it may in some cases just be down to ignorance. I don't mean that in a nasty way - some colleagues are simpy not aware of (our) expectations as regards etiquette.

I've sometimes "found the answer elsewhere" - but always award points in recognition of the time and effort invested by colleagues, which I always appreciate.

Yolande Haneder wrote:
Maybe if you would ask me per E-mail, I might tell you


Sorry, Yolande, but IMO that's asking too much. Surely it is the Asker's obligation to make an effort and provide the relevant information.

... But there are unfortunately also those colleagues who are just lazy. These tend to be the ones who provide little or no context and no comments/input of their own. They don't deserve our help, so I ignore such questions.


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