Get the most KudoZ points by being lazy...
Thread poster: Martin Wenzel

Martin Wenzel
Germany
Local time: 08:54
English to German
+ ...
Aug 2, 2007

I have often wondered if it isn't a bit unjust if the ones who get the ball rolling by their discussions and by submitting early suggestions will most likely not earn any kudos because the "clever" ones will wait and only jump in in the end...

At least that's true for marketing language or idioms or slogans and the like, as the best ones are usually those that represent a synthesis of what has been said/discussed before...

Also, it often seems that questions are not answered for a long time, until somebody bothers to take it up whereupon the "lazy or clever ones" usually start making their comments...

So if it's all about helping each other, people who wait before jumping in primarily help themselves [by earning points], so their laziness is rewarded...


[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2007-08-02 13:35]


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Ulrike Kraemer
Germany
Local time: 08:54
English to German
+ ...
Just lazy ... or busy? Aug 2, 2007

I don't know how it is with you, but I usually don't have the time to hover in front of my computer waiting for the next question to be asked so that I can "jump in" immediately to be the first to make a suggestion (and get the points, if I am lucky).

Apart from that, it happens more often than not that I have to think about a question for a while before a good idea pops into my mind that I think is worth posting.


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Yes and No Aug 2, 2007

I'm sure that time zones also play a major role in when a person answers a question, and when others respond.

Of course, if I answer something quickly (and assuming correctly), the answers coming after can be refinements that have used my answer for an even better responds - in the sense that 2 heads are better than one. For the asker, this is only beneficial. And isn't this the point of KudZ?

[Edited at 2007-08-02 13:27]


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Marcelo Silveyra
United States
Local time: 23:54
Member (2007)
German to English
+ ...
but this can be fixed... Aug 2, 2007

by taking your time before providing an answer. While "piggybacking" is a really annoying practice when it comes to technical, scientific, and academic questions (i.e. someone suggesting "brand repositioning for the mid-high segment" instead of agreeing with a comment on "brand repositioning for the middle-high segment"), it's unavoidable with marketing text. After all, most marketing/advertising-related questions are not about the meaning of the text, but about a catchy way of translating it. Anyone can come up with a translation for "Got Milk?" in 3 seconds, but not everyone can come up with a catchy way of translating it as quickly.

Also, there's laziness and then there's not being glued to the computer. I've had people piggybacking on my answers in the most brazen (love that word) way possible - the question remains unanswered for literally hours, and 5 minutes after I post my answer, someone else posts a slight and insignificant variation on it. That's piggybacking. It sucks and it's extremely disrespectful.

But if I post an answer a few minutes after the question comes in and other answers are suggested within the next hour or so, that's just people not being glued to the computer and stalking the KudoZ board to get points. It's simply a natural process - and it's also very useful for the end translation. That includes syntheses that are not obvious rip-offs.

And, like you said, if it's all about helping each other, getting the ball rolling should be a rewarding experience even without the points - unless you're ALWAYS getting screwed by piggybackers (this is my new official KudoZ word, bu the way).


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NancyLynn
Canada
Local time: 02:54
Member (2002)
French to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
Exactly! Aug 2, 2007

Linda Bolzern wrote:
For the asker, this is only beneficial. And isn't this the point of KudZ?

[Edited at 2007-08-02 13:27]


The ultimate goal of KudoZ, of course, is to help the Asker with a tricky bit. I think of it as a virtual office, where colleagues working together can help one another: "Hey Joe, what d'you think the writer had in mind in this paragraph?" and the other colleagues may chime in - offering refinements, as you say Linda, inspired by the first suggestion(s). The points are just a bonus.

Best,

Nancy


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Kirill Semenov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 09:54
Member (2004)
English to Russian
+ ...
KudoZ strategy if playing it for sport Aug 2, 2007

Martin Wenzel wrote:
I have often wondered if it isn't a bit unjust if the ones who get the ball rolling by their discussions and by submitting early suggestions will most likely not earn any kudos because the "clever" ones will wait and only jump in in the end...


I don't think there is anything "unjust" in the kudoZ system. You participate when you can and when you wish. To put a sound example, a lot of people are not happy with very fast answers - and they also think, that "first come first served" is the basic rule in kudoZ.

This or that, being quite an old-time kudoZer and being somewhat a KudoZ grabber I can't agree with both sides. A good KudoZ strategy is more subtle than simply being the first or the last. Rather, it's more about being more persuading. And, first of all, only the asker knows everything. Misclicks or stupid askers happen, but they don't really change the general picture. Statistically, none of us is better professional than he or she is, so in the lon run occasional points in mean the same amount of occasional points out. If not today, then tomorrow.

My personal advice is simple: Don't bother your head over points. Just try to help the askers and respect the other answerers - although not to the point to kiss their a.... Your points will come with time, be you first or last in the row.


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Satto (Roberto)  Identity Verified
Colombia
Local time: 01:54
Member (2007)
Spanish to English
+ ...
How right you are.. Aug 2, 2007

Marcelo Silveyra wrote:

That's piggybacking. It sucks and it's extremely disrespectful.



Marcelo hit it perfect..I call them leeches, feeding on someone else's answer, making a little change and getting the points. These people do not have the right mind to suggest a good answer but always come back with a slight change.

At first, it really pissed me off, but nowadays it doesn't bother me that much, although it still is somewhat annoying.

And how about those that can NEVER agree..there are a few out there that always have to give another answer or they always have the answer to EVERYTHING..to me that is impossible, I only answer questions, I "think" I know.."think" because your mind sometimes plays tricks on you...I know that so I think twice before suggesting an answer...as should everybody else.


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John Cutler  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 08:54
Spanish to English
+ ...
Agree. It is a game/sport Aug 2, 2007

I’ve been convinced since I joined Proz.com that the Kudoz system is a type of game. I don’t know if that was really how it was conceived, but that’s how it works out in reality.

People “play” Kudoz the way they’d play any game. There are some highly competitive, cut-throat types who would just as soon smash a lob into your face and there are others who are just in it for the fun of it and the teamwork involved. They’re the kind of people who play “just to play”.

I agree with what the other posters have said that perhaps some of the delays in answering are just a difference in time zones, dedication to answering, etc. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised though, if - like in any game of strategy - there were some real strategists out there waiting to pounce when the moment is right.

In the end, I think the means justify the ends. If a fellow translator is helped and the player gets their points then it’s a win-win situation.


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xxxLia Fail  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 08:54
Spanish to English
+ ...
asker needs to exercise discretion and to be as fair as possible Aug 2, 2007

Satto (Roberto) wrote:

Marcelo Silveyra wrote:

That's piggybacking. It sucks and it's extremely disrespectful.



Marcelo hit it perfect..I call them leeches, feeding on someone else's answer, making a little change and getting the points. These people do not have the right mind to suggest a good answer but always come back with a slight change.



I think the asker has a role to play here and to give credit where credit is due. If a good answer is posted, then followed up in minutes by a similar answer, they should bear in mind the possibility that the 2nd answer was influenced by the first.

More importantly though, it's the best documented answer which should be awarded the points .... sadly this doesn't happen enough:-( And I don't mean the dictionary definitions that are so beloved of some answerers.


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Textklick  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:54
German to English
+ ...
Couldn't agree more Aug 2, 2007

LittleBalu wrote:

I don't know how it is with you, but I usually don't have the time to hover in front of my computer waiting for the next question to be asked so that I can "jump in" immediately to be the first to make a suggestion (and get the points, if I am lucky).

Apart from that, it happens more often than not that I have to think about a question for a while before a good idea pops into my mind that I think is worth posting.


Late responses are, I suppose, more of a problem for those who lean heavily on Kudoz.

If the speed of response to your questions does not satisfy your requirements, it might be an idea to spend the time doing some research, adding your own ideas to the questions.

I don't care whether the answerer is a "points-grabber", lazy, diligent, condescending, rude or even insane, as long as I can get a useful response.


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Patrice  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:54
Member
French to English
+ ...
More like brainstorming Aug 2, 2007

Maybe I've just been naive, but it never really occurred to me that people had the kind of time to operate that way. I thought it was more like brainstorming. One person would think of something and then people say, "yeah, or how about...."...a healthy and normal process were it not that people are collecting kudos.

I don't think it's the asker's responsibility to determine who "really" came up with the answer. Presumably these are people working away on their translations and asking for help where they're stuck. Their goal, especially at that time, is to get the best help they can.

There will always be people who don't play fair and who get the credit...brings to mind offices I've worked in. (Not that that makes it okay...).


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:54
English to German
+ ...
Slightly off topic Aug 3, 2007

When I read the title of this topic, it spontaneously made me think of

"Get the most KudoZ points by being too lazy to provide references but by being faster. Some altruistic little sucker will pop up anyway with carefully researched references which will make him/her 0.3 minutes late yet will prove my answer right anyway, even if mine was a mere guess. Boy, did I get lucky! Haha! This saved time! Others do the work and I get the points because "Agree-s" as well as points are given to the FASTEST answer, instead of the most valuable one. Wohooo! KudoZ-Indy 500!"

)))

However, this time seriously:

In most cases I profit from the "late" answers as they were thought over more carefully. Call me a quality addict.

I have to admit though that I usually am asking for creative input rather than technical terms.



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xxxFrancis Lee
Local time: 08:54
German to English
+ ...
It's the most helpful answer that counts - not the fastest. Right? Aug 3, 2007

My initial interpretation was the same as Nicole's:

Nicole Schnell wrote:
"Get the most KudoZ points by being too lazy to provide references but by being faster. Some altruistic little sucker will pop up anyway with carefully researched references which will make him/her 0.3 minutes late yet will prove my answer right anyway, even if mine was a mere guess. Boy, did I get lucky! Haha! This saved time! Others do the work and I get the points because "Agree-s" as well as points are given to the FASTEST answer, instead of the most valuable one. Wohooo! KudoZ-Indy 500!"


This happens all the time. In such cases, I on principle give an Agree (or the points, when asking) to the "MOST HELPFUL" answer (in accordance with the official guidelines).

If there are two or more identicial answers within a few minutes of each other, I give the nod to the colleague who at least provided a reference or personal input/explanations.

There are also a lot of answers that are pure speculation, i.e. an at best 50:50 answer where the context is minimal and the Answerer comments simply "." (but combined with a high confidence level)
I have little respect for such colleagues.

At the same time, I think I know what Martin is referring to, i.e. clear cases of people a) using information and ideas from previous answers and b) not even giving any acknowledgement/recognition of earlier Askers

OK, there are some colleagues who are new to Kudoz. But there's no excuse for experienced Kudozers ...


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