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New ask the asker restriction ('temporarily implemented, pending feedback' - site staff)
Thread poster: Can Altinbay

Can Altinbay  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:11
Japanese to English
+ ...
Aug 18, 2007

Did I miss the discussion and the announcement? Did I miss the restriction before?

Suddenly, there is this blurb that you need (it says "should have") 20 PRO points in a language pair to ask the asker or rate a response for a question in that pair.

I'm sure some will agree with the policy, and I can see some of the arguments for. But it seems like yet another restriction that I'm not sure is going to make anything better. And the reasons I feel that way have been mentioned in other threads about other ideas for KudoZ.

But right now, I'm more interested in how I might have missed any indication that this was going to happen.

Reference: 7.60 in the FAQ.


[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2007-08-18 21:40]


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Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Partial member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
Well, I too, Aug 18, 2007

did miss it obviously:-) I was as surprised as you to discover that I wasn't able anymore to rate an answer given in German->German where I have only a few KudoZ points. I don't know whether this is good or not (probably it is), but sure I would have liked to know this possibly beforehand.

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Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 01:11
Member (2006)
English to Turkish
+ ...
See FAQ Aug 18, 2007

http://www.proz.com/faq/kudoz#kudoz_ask_asker

23. ANSWERING: What is the KudoZ "ask the asker" function for? Can I use it?

"Ask the asker" allows members to request additional context or other clarification from a KudoZ asker. The function is available to members who have earned 20 or more KudoZ PRO points in the corresponding language pair.

The "Ask the Asker" function should not be used for any purpose other than that stated above. It is against the rules to use it for answering, or commenting on the asker's decision to post the question.



http://www.proz.com/faq/kudoz#1.60

60. I can't see the ask-the-asker or peer grade options. Why not?

In order to post in the ask-the-asker box and peer grade other users' answers in a question, users should have at least 20 PRO points in the corresponding language pair.


HTH


[Edited at 2007-08-18 20:34]


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Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Partial member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
It's not only the ask the asker function Aug 18, 2007

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:


23. ANSWERING: What is the KudoZ "ask the asker" function for? Can I use it?

"Ask the asker" allows members to request additional context or other clarification from a KudoZ asker. The function is available to members who have earned 20 or more KudoZ PRO points in the corresponding language pair.




I just wanted to rate an answer like usual and all of a sudden I wasn't allowed to anymore.

[Bearbeitet am 2007-08-18 21:05]


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transnordisk
Local time: 23:11
Swedish to French
+ ...
Things happen (no idiomatic allusions intended!) Aug 18, 2007

"But it seems like yet another restriction" (Can Altinbay).

I´m not sure it turns out being helpful for those who sometimes might miss my relevant, but never ever KudoZ pointed (since I use "not for grading") answers.

Any restriction kills the spirit of freedom, however.

God bless PROZ!


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Can Altinbay  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:11
Japanese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Yes, I know it's in the FAQ Aug 18, 2007

Selcuk bey, I know it's in the FAQ. I even referred to it. But I believe it is new, and I never heard anything about it being added.

Christel, thanks for confirming that I am not getting old timer's disease.


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Anne Goff  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:11
French to English
+ ...
Peer Review Aug 18, 2007

This is ridiculous. I'm not even allowed to comment on another answer now if I don't have enough pro points in category?

So, if I like an answer, but feel that a smidge more information would be beneficial to the asker, I have no option but to propose my own separate answer?

Admittedly I've been ignoring KudoZ lately- when did this happen?


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transnordisk
Local time: 23:11
Swedish to French
+ ...
This is ridiculous. Aug 18, 2007

Anne Goff wrote:

This is ridiculous.



Yes. Oui. Ja. Да. Tak etc. ...


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 18:11
SITE FOUNDER
Not a done deal... we want your feedback Aug 18, 2007

Hi all,

Moderators and staff members have been discussing a number of possible adjustments to KudoZ, and this is one of them. Although there had been some agreement from moderators on this 20 point idea, the site team has gotten ahead of itself in releasing it without an announcement and call for feedback from the member community.

We'll undo the change and start over tomorrow. In the meantime, please let us know what you think of this and - since it is live, for now - what you experience of it.

Thanks in advance!


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Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Partial member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
Yes, you are right Aug 18, 2007

Anne Goff wrote:

This is ridiculous. I'm not even allowed to comment on another answer now if I don't have enough pro points in category?

So, if I like an answer, but feel that a smidge more information would be beneficial to the asker, I have no option but to propose my own separate answer?



I thought first of peers that don't work in a definite language pair, which often happens (and maybe this would be not so bad), but this is definitely not my case. I am German and often look into german -> german questions, and this LP is stated in my profile, so why should I not be able to rate answers any more?


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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:11
Member (2000)
Russian to English
+ ...
I think it's ridiculous too. Aug 18, 2007

Anyone may have only a sketchy knowledge of a language and yet may happen to know some particular fact about one aspect of a question not in his/her language pair, which is better communicated by using the "ask the asker" feature than by submitting an answer.

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xxxmediamatrix
Local time: 19:11
Spanish to English
+ ...
Henry wants feedback? - 'ere it comes! Aug 18, 2007

I first noticed this in English-English, which I only added to my language pairs a few days ago.

Despite having several thousand KudoZ in my 'proper' language pairs - which all include English as either source or target - and despite being a native English speaker with well over 50 years' day-to-day experience of the language, I am prevented from offering anything useful to English-only questions other than adding a fresh answer which, in many cases, is unwarranted.

Frankly, Henry, its stoooopid!

MediaMatrix


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 18:11
SITE FOUNDER
Please help us make wise adjustments to KudoZ, mediamatrix Aug 18, 2007

mediamatrix wrote:

I first noticed this in English-English, which I only added to my language pairs a few days ago.

Despite having several thousand KudoZ in my 'proper' language pairs - which all include English as either source or target - and despite being a native English speaker with well over 50 years' day-to-day experience of the language, I am prevented from offering anything useful to English-only questions other than adding a fresh answer which, in many cases, is unwarranted.

Thank you. This is useful feedback.
Frankly, Henry, its stoooopid!

I appreciate your usual frankness, mediamatrix, and you may or may not be right in your assessment. However, please reconsider the practice of addressing your feedback to me personally, and of using the type of language you have used here to reject a well-intentioned suggestion.

Please understand that this idea was not mine, it was put forward by dedicated people who care deeply about the site, and it has been agreed upon by a handful of moderators of whom the same can be said. Whether this particular approach is wise or not, it was put forward with the goal of boosting the level of discourse in KudoZ - and this is a goal that many people using the site share. Please consider putting forward a better idea, or otherwise cooperating with those who are working to improve our shared workplace!


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Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:11
French to English
Wrong kind of restriction? Aug 18, 2007

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the change.

I'm fairly sure that when I was a newbie, my first tentative steps consisted of rating other people's answers first. To get a feel for how the site works, the 'atmosphere', that kind of thing.

To discourage this approach, by effectively saying "if you're new, the only thing you can do is propose an answer", is a mistake, I feel. It can only promote people jumping in with both feet, when perhaps newbies would be best advised to 'test the water' first with some agrees and disagrees and questions. One does, from time to time, see newbies arriving, giving inappropriate answers with confidence = 5 and so on - people who, frankly, would be better off watching from the sidelnes for a while and observing. This change can surely only lead to more of this kind of thing

I would think that, perhaps, a better restriction would be to say that you in fact can't post your own answer until you've accumulated x Browniz points, or rated (not necessarily agreed with) y questions. Not sure how many x would be, I would think 20 or 30 would be appropriate for y....





[Edited at 2007-08-19 00:47]


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Anne Goff  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:11
French to English
+ ...
Towards the goal of useful suggestions... Aug 18, 2007

Could site staff and/or moderators list the reasons for making this change? What problems was it meant to solve? The community might be encouraged to suggest more useful solutions if it knew what it was trying to solve.

Was the goal to prevent people with little knowledge of the language/subject from clouding the issue? If so, this solution seems unlikely to help, as the same people can still post any answer they choose.

Was the goal to end the hurt feelings and occasional tempers caused by votes against an answer? If so, this solution seems extreme to say the least.

What exactly is the goal?


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