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Suggestion for relaxing or clarifying "Ask the asker" rules.
Thread poster: Jack Doughty

Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:08
Member (2000)
Russian to English
+ ...
Jan 24, 2008

The present rules for "Ask the asker" are as follows:

23. ANSWERING: What is the KudoZ "ask the asker" function for? Can I use it?

"Ask the asker" allows members to request additional context or other clarification from a KudoZ asker.

The "Ask the Asker" function should not be used for any purpose other than that stated above. It is against the rules to use it for answering, or commenting on the asker's decision to post the question.

But "Ask the asker" is often used, at least in the pairs I most frequently visit (Russian-English and all-English) for a general discussion between answerers and including the asker, on a topic raised by the question. Though I have never seen any objection raised to this, it would appear on the face of it to be against the rules, and I don't think it should be, because it seems to me to be a very useful function.

See http://www.proz.com/kudoz/2372320 for an example of the sort of discussion I mean.


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Jenny Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:08
Member (2006)
French to English
+ ...
Deeply reasonable Jan 24, 2008

Jack Doughty wrote:

The present rules for "Ask the asker" are as follows:

23. ANSWERING: What is the KudoZ "ask the asker" function for? Can I use it?

"Ask the asker" allows members to request additional context or other clarification from a KudoZ asker.

The "Ask the Asker" function should not be used for any purpose other than that stated above. It is against the rules to use it for answering, or commenting on the asker's decision to post the question.

But "Ask the asker" is often used, at least in the pairs I most frequently visit (Russian-English and all-English) for a general discussion between answerers and including the asker, on a topic raised by the question. Though I have never seen any objection raised to this, it would appear on the face of it to be against the rules, and I don't think it should be, because it seems to me to be a very useful function.

See http://www.proz.com/kudoz/2372320 for an example of the sort of discussion I mean.


That sounds deeply reasonable, Jack, like all your postings.
Regards,
Jenny.


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Marie-Hélène Hayles  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:08
Italian to English
+ ...
Wholeheartedly agree Jan 24, 2008

It's also widely used for the same purpose in IT-EN, and there as in the English monolingual section it's often just as if not more useful than the actual answers themselves in providing background information and possible solutions.

If the idea is to encourage people to post well-researched answers rather than guesses, I think it's mistaken. For example, I sometimes use the "ask the asker" section because I have relevant background knowledge of term usage in English without knowing what the right translation is in Italian. I could always post a "not for points" answer (and sometimes do), but as this is superficially detrimental to my answered/points ratio it'd be fairer if there was a Proz-sanctioned way to give such information without being "penalised" for it.

[Edited at 2008-01-24 11:07]


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Margreet Logmans  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 17:08
English to Dutch
+ ...
Another agree Jan 24, 2008

Marie-Hélène Hayles wrote:

It's also widely used for the same purpose in IT-EN, and there as in the English monolingual section it's often just as if not more useful than the actual answers themselves in providing background information and possible solutions.

If the idea is to encourage people to post well-researched answers rather than guesses, I think it's mistaken. For example, I sometimes use the "ask the asker" section because I have relevant background knowledge of term usage in English without knowing what the right translation is in Italian. I could always post a "not for points" answer (and sometimes do), but as this is superficially detrimental to my answered/points ratio it'd be fairer if there was a Proz-sanctioned way to give such information without being "penalised" for it.

[Edited at 2008-01-24 11:07]


I have agreed with Marie-Hélène on a lot of things before, and this is no exception.
Just read 'Dutch' in stead of 'Italian'.


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Valery Kaminski  Identity Verified
Belarus
Local time: 18:08
Member (2006)
English to Russian
+ ...
Once upon a time... Jan 24, 2008

there was some positive reaction to this suggestion.

http://www.proz.com/topic/81997?start=30&float=


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Jared Tabor
Local time: 12:08
SITE STAFF
Interesting suggestion Jan 24, 2008

Hello all,

Thank you Jack for this suggestion. As Valery mentions, the idea has been discussed before, but I am tagging this as well for evaluation. Please note that any eventual amplification of the use of the ask-the-asker function would not exclude other rules in place for answering and making peer comments, such as http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_answ/3.4#3.4 , http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_answ/3.6#3.6 and http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_answ/3.7#3.7

Thanks everyone for your feedback on this!

Jared


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Marie-Hélène Hayles  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:08
Italian to English
+ ...
So there was! Jan 24, 2008

Valery Kaminski wrote:

there was some positive reaction to this suggestion.

http://www.proz.com/topic/81997?start=30&float=



(Cross-posted with Jared)



[Edited at 2008-01-24 12:47]


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Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 17:08
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
Me too! Jan 24, 2008

I was going to bring this up with staff again, but I can see Jared has got in already.
The link is very slow today, so I'll leave it for now!



[Edited at 2008-01-24 12:52]


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Steffen Walter  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 17:08
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
Conditional "agree" Jan 24, 2008

Hi Jack,

I do see your point but I'd rather make an attempt at redesigning the KudoZ page completely since the long discussions the "Ask the asker" box is used for so often make the screen extremely cluttered, distracting the view from the answers as such.

As an alternative, I'd suggest to put the AtA box (perhaps to be redesigned/repositioned on the page) to new use as a discussion area while introducing a radio-button design with boilerplate messages for requests to be sent to the asker (similar to the reasons for squashing questions).

My 2c,
Steffen


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Prawi  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 17:08
German to Italian
Fully agree with you Jan 24, 2008

Marie-Hélène Hayles wrote:

It's also widely used for the same purpose in IT-EN, and there as in the English monolingual section it's often just as if not more useful than the actual answers themselves in providing background information and possible solutions.

If the idea is to encourage people to post well-researched answers rather than guesses, I think it's mistaken. For example, I sometimes use the "ask the asker" section because I have relevant background knowledge of term usage in English without knowing what the right translation is in Italian. I could always post a "not for points" answer (and sometimes do), but as this is superficially detrimental to my answered/points ratio it'd be fairer if there was a Proz-sanctioned way to give such information without being "penalised" for it.

[Edited at 2008-01-24 11:07]


Same in my pairs (DE /IT) - As Steffen rightly pointed out, it would be much better to create a separated area where we can discuss the question - Just amplificating the use of the AfA wouldn't help much, because if you want to post more than a couple of sentences, you've to split the text more than once.

Paola


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JaneTranslates  Identity Verified
Puerto Rico
Local time: 11:08
Member (2005)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Oh yes, please! Jan 24, 2008

I'm afraid I've often broken this rule. I would dearly love to have a place where I can legally make some comment that isn't an answer, or a question for the asker, but that I think is germane and possibly useful. Occasionally I can squeeze it in with my agree, but that option is often unavailable (no answer given, for example) or inappropriate. And sometimes my comment simply is too long for that space.

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