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KudoZ and Spanish
Thread poster: Marta Fernandez-Suarez
Marta Fernandez-Suarez  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:07
English to Spanish
Feb 27, 2008

I believe this is not the first time I or other people mention this issue and before going into it again, I would like to stablish that I have no intention of offending any nationality whatsoever. As mentioned in the title it has to do with KudoZ translations into Spanish and it has also to do with Spanish variants.

I believe KudoZ is there for everybody to use, that everybody should benefit and learn from it and be keen to participate, but I feel discouraged to participate, or more likely disappointed. But I am not going to take the role of the victim here, as it is not the point I wish to put across.


* Sometimes, when I look at English into Spanish KudoZ, I think of Eurovision ("so and so votes for a country because they like it", or "because they are going to get votes back from them later"). It is surreal.

* Just as many times I think, of course, people just vote the answers they feel they can vote, thus a Mexican person (for example) would vote for the Mexican answer because s/he knows that variant and does not feel s/he could judge other answers from other countries

* Just as many times I wonder whyyyyy the asker does not mention the country s/he needs the answer for. Thus saving precious time for the people who answer or comment, and actually saving his/her own time when getting a more accurate answer to their needs.

I just do not understand this at all. Something needs to be done so that KudoZ into Spanish looks minimally serious and professional as far as translations into Spanish are concerned. When will it happen?

Kind regards

Marta

PD: sorry for the spelling mistakes made on my first attempt to post this

[Edited at 2008-02-27 21:09]


[Edited at 2008-02-27 22:56]

[Edited at 2008-02-28 07:42]


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Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 04:07
German to English
Quality is on the "to-do list" Feb 27, 2008

Marta Fernandez-Suarez wrote:

I just do not understand this at all. Something needs to be done so that KudoZ into Spanish looks minimally serious and professional as far as translations into Spanish are concerned. When will it happen?



Professional members and moderators have been asking for a checkbox allowing askers to stipulate the language variant of their source terms and target terms for many years, Marta.

Askers can now stipulate the language they'd prefer to have explanations in, whether the question is pro or non-pro, whether or not they want to award points, whether they will choose the most helpful answer or allow it to be closed automatically (first validated answer), and much more.

But this key quality improvement that you and many, many others have asked for has not been instituted, and the way things are going, I don't expect to see it any time soon.

[Edited at 2008-02-27 21:42]


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Anna Sylvia Villegas Carvallo
Mexico
Local time: 04:07
English to Spanish
Many times... Feb 27, 2008

When I've posted a question on KudoZ, I don't care where the answerer is from. What I really want is to open/illuminate/clear my mind about the term or phrase I'm asking help for.

Ultimately, the final responsability is only and exclusively mine.

Many times, I can award an aswer, but I use it on my translation the way I feel or I'm sure its said in my country.

KudoZ, for me, means help, not the final word.

Regards.


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Paul Merriam  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:07
Member (2008)
Russian to English
+ ...
Poster's requirements Feb 27, 2008

It's up to the poster to choose the most helpful answer. The poster may use whatever criteria he/she considers appropriate. I should hope it's more substantive than "that lady looks gorgeous" or "that guy is from Mexico".

I can see reasons why the poster might not wish to indicate the country the translation is headed for. For example, the target text might be intended for Spanish-speaking people in the US (who come from lots of places and speak Spanish with varying degrees of proficiency). Or it might be the case that the translation is intended for multiple countries in Latin America. Or perhaps the poster believes that the Bolivian name for a widgit is very similar to the Venezuelan name or the Mexican name and believes that by specifying "Bolivian", the Venezuelans and the Mexicans won't want to comment.

I'm not a native Spanish speaker, though I do have some KUDOZ points for English to Spanish. Often the answer I post is an explanation because I think the original poster isn't sure what the source text meant. I don't normally translate from English to Spanish professionally, so I would expect that those people who chose my answer as most helpful examine it and modify it as they see fit.

I know that we periodically have to explain to clients that Uruguayan, Chilean, Mexican and Honduran are mutually intelligible. I know that native Spanish speakers already know that. (They mutually understand.) But I'm curious, do Venezuelans, say, ever get clients asking them to rewrite a text originally written for, say, Peruvians to, say, Argentinians?

Frankly, I think the English to Spanish part of KUDOZ does indeed look professional. I think the users (both the original posters and those who consult the queries later) need to make their own decisions about whether to use a given answer.


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Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 04:07
German to English
German/English and English monolingual Feb 27, 2008

I can't speak for English to Spanish KudoZ, but I can speak for the English/German pairs. All too often the asker initially fails to specify which variant of English or German he or she is looking for and then selects an answer "because it was the Swiss term" or "because it was the British English term", etc.
This often causes good translators to spend a considerable amount of time researching an interesting/challenging question only to see their efforts wasted needlessly. The Brits might vote for the BE term and the Americans, Canadians, Australians, etc. vote for their term. We could all have been spared this exercise if the asker had stipulated the language version in the first place.

When folks later search terms in the glossaries, it would be very helpful to know if a term is specifically British, Austrian, etc.

[Edited at 2008-02-27 22:47]

[Edited at 2008-02-27 22:53]


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Marta Fernandez-Suarez  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:07
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER
hi Feb 27, 2008

Thanks for the answers. I was not expecting answers but it is nice to know about other people's views on this.

Kim, I do not say that people can't, it is just that they don't, that it is very rare that someone specifies which country it is for, and, in my opinion, it is a shame.

Regards,

Marta


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Anna Sylvia Villegas Carvallo
Mexico
Local time: 04:07
English to Spanish
Hear to Paul Merriam Feb 28, 2008

Thanks for this:
Paul Merriam wrote:
Frankly, I think the English to Spanish part of KudoZ does indeed look professional. I think the users (both the original posters and those who consult the queries later) need to make their own decisions about whether to use a given answer.


Regarding to this:
But I'm curious, do Venezuelans, say, ever get clients asking them to rewrite a text originally written for, say, Peruvians to, say, Argentinians?


Not local clients, but European and North American clients. I think they think we speak different languages or dialects, but we Latin Americans are very much aware that we have only one language: Spanish. And this is ruled by the Dictionary of the Royal Spanish Academy.

On the other hand, localisms are localisms, mostly used for the spoken language. Professional translators avoid localisms, except on technical translations when these are addressed to a particular market (local mechanical workshops, for instance). In this case, Askers on Kudoz are always very specific, and clients would be rather right in searching for the appropriate local translator.



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xxxmediamatrix
Local time: 07:07
Spanish to English
+ ...
And the rest ... Feb 28, 2008

Tadzio Carvallo wrote:
... Professional translators avoid localisms, except on technical translations when these are addressed to a particular market (local mechanical workshops, for instance).


.. like translating court proceedings, legal papers, film/TV dialogue, literature and a hundred and one other types of translation.

MediaMatrix


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Anna Sylvia Villegas Carvallo
Mexico
Local time: 04:07
English to Spanish
Exclude literature, please Feb 28, 2008

I haven't —yet— read books written by Isabel Allende, Gabriela Mistral, Pablo Neruda, José Donoso, Gabriel García Márquez, Jorge Luis Borges, Julio Cortázar, Ernesto Sabato, and a thousand and one other "localized" for certain Hispanic market.

Just ask García Márquez what he did with one of his books "edited" —and published— in Spain... He sued the publishing house and removed the entire printing from the Spanish market. Many other —worldwide— have done the same.

I think "mediamatrix" is not being fair. (Please apply your common sense.)


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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:07
Member (2000)
Russian to English
+ ...
Example of need to distinguish between US and UK English Feb 28, 2008



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Marta Fernandez-Suarez  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:07
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER
but... Feb 28, 2008

There are many occassions in which a localized version* for translations into Spanish is needed. One clear example is if there are idioms and set expressions on the text, which is often the case in many fields, not only literature or journalism, but also tourism, to mention one. Addition after posted: other fields requiring localisation if you wish to speak the language of the buyer buying a product or voting: advertising and political discourse. I happened to have read Sabato, García Márquez, Vargas Llosa, Neruda, Isabel Alllende and Cortázar, and I love their works and understand them, but that does not mean I can translate into any other variant than Spanish for Spain. I believe mediamatrix is making lots of sense.

Please Tazio, que no lleguen las aguas al río...

Saludos cordiales

Marta


*whether you call this a version for every country individually or a cheap and usual localisation into Spanish (is it normally into Spanish from Spain, Spanish from Mexico and Spanish from Argentina?) is another matter

[Edited at 2008-02-28 21:56]


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Marcelo Silveyra
United States
Local time: 02:07
Member (2007)
German to English
+ ...
Previous discussion Feb 28, 2008

Hi Marta,

I think you might find this one interesting: http://www.proz.com/topic/73906


Jack, what's this about distinguishing between US and UK English? Poppycock! I say we table that suggestion (for anyone who didn't get it: http://english2american.com/dictionary/cat_misc.html)


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alorcalopez  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 07:07
Member (2004)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Latinamerican Spanish Feb 28, 2008

Hi
Interesting subject. Most of the texts I translate have as target language Latinamerican Spanish so when I post questions in proz I am usually asking for the most common term that can be understood by all Latinamerican speakers, or all Spanish speakers.

Also, when I post answers I only indicate the term is a Chilean localism if the person is asking for an answer that is correct for Chile. I would't answer a question looking for an specific term used in Guatemala because I've never lived there.


Andrea


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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:07
Member (2000)
Russian to English
+ ...
To Marcelo Feb 28, 2008

As you probably realise, or even more probably realize, to table a suggestion means something different to me compared to what it does to you. Unfortunately your link on this subject doesn't work.

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Marcelo Silveyra
United States
Local time: 02:07
Member (2007)
German to English
+ ...
To Jack Feb 28, 2008

Hi Jack,

Strange...that link was working just a couple of hours ago and now it's disappeared from the planet. Anyway, all it did was explain the difference between what table means to you and what table means to me, i.e. by saying "I say we table that suggestion" I was just reinforcing what you said about distinguishing between US and UK English, albeit with an irony that may just have been too subtle to be effective!


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