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Off topic: Fax-spam harassment
Thread poster: sylvie malich

sylvie malich
Germany
Local time: 22:46
German to English
May 28, 2004

Forum topic is a misnomer, I am royally p*ssed. Let me explain, for the umpteenth time within the last few months I have had my sleep interrupted at 3:30 am by a spam-fax. My fax machine is always switched off at night but the main phone rings when my fax number is dialed. If I forget to move the phone into the living room, my phone is stationed outside my bedroom, I'm awakened.

These faxes cannot be traced, they always want you to call a fax-response (190) number but no number to get yourself off their +$&="§$ list.
Is there any way we can protect ourselves from this harassment?

Excuse me for sounding off, but I've only had 4 hours of sleep and my head is throbbing...

frustrated in Berlin,
sylvie


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Ivan Eikås Skjøstad  Identity Verified
Norway
Local time: 22:46
Member (2002)
English to Norwegian
+ ...
MSN May 28, 2004

If you are using ISDN you can configure your phone to have separate numbers. After doing this you might want to turn off the fax ringing sound.

If you are using an analog system this might not be possible, but in the meantime I would have disconected the telephone line before I went to bed...or switch to e-fax.


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Jabberwock  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 22:46
Member (2004)
English to Polish
Leave the fax machine on... May 28, 2004

In some fax models you can leave it on, but disable receiving. That way you can suppress the call ring AND not waste toner and paper.

Most telephone companies have also call service, some othem even allow you to schedule the hours, so you don't have to bother each time to turn it on or off.


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tectranslate ITS GmbH
Local time: 22:46
German
+ ...
Well, for Germany... May 28, 2004

...the following regulations apply:
http://www.regtp.de/service/02898/01/index.html
See also
http://www.regtp.de/mwdgesetz/in_12-01-00-00-00_m/17/index.html

In short: You can file a complaint with the RegTP (German telco regulatory agency) and they will take the necessary steps. Be sure to browse www.regtp.de, too, as the above link only contains a single page (I can't link the entire frameset here for technical reasons). Obviously, they've shut down spam fax operators before, but you shouldn't get your hopes up too early - it's a bit like fightin windmills à la Don Quixote.

HTH,
Benjamin
tectranslate


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xxxsarahl
Local time: 13:46
English to French
+ ...
Fax them to let them know! May 28, 2004

I don't know about Germany but I used to get a lot of those in France because phone calls are cheaper in the dead of the night, they were sending out a lot of those, and they thought they were faxing a company. So I would just send them a fax to let them know they had been faxing a private residence and they stopped. Some of them even apologized.
Luck.


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 16:46
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
No fax but e-fax May 28, 2004

Hi

I receive my faxes via Internet. No problem at all.
http://www.j2.com/jconnect/twa/page/aboutUs

Claudia


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Edward Potter  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:46
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
I had worse May 28, 2004

My voice line somehow got on a fax marketer's list and was calling me every day. I finally hooked up my fax machine to the voice line and found out who it was, then gave them a phone call expressing my great displeasure.

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sylvie malich
Germany
Local time: 22:46
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Ben May 28, 2004

tectransDE wrote:

...the following regulations apply:
http://www.regtp.de/service/02898/01/index.html
See also
http://www.regtp.de/mwdgesetz/in_12-01-00-00-00_m/17/index.html

In short: You can file a complaint with the RegTP (German telco regulatory agency) and they will take the necessary steps. Be sure to browse www.regtp.de, too, as the above link only contains a single page (I can't link the entire frameset here for technical reasons). Obviously, they've shut down spam fax operators before, but you shouldn't get your hopes up too early - it's a bit like fightin windmills à la Don Quixote.

HTH,
Benjamin
tectranslate


Yes, this seems to be the way to go. I can't possibly fax them back if it is a fax-response 190 number they publish in their "informative" newsletter (lately it's about the merits of Aldi products).
I guess it means leaving the fax and phone on overnight though and losing another night's sleep...

Edward, I sympathize with you.

Ivan Eikås Skjøstad, I've been reading my Siemen's ISDN phone manual regularly (all 140 pages of it) and *thought* I had it programmed not to ring when the fax line is receiving. Alas...
Back to the *&§%"°% manual.



[Edited at 2004-05-28 14:37]


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Michele Johnson  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 22:46
German to English
+ ...
Practically the worst thing to do? May 28, 2004

sarahl wrote:
....So I would just send them a fax to let them know they had been faxing a private residence and they stopped. Some of them even apologized.
Luck.


Do you also click on the line in spam email that says "Remove me from your list"? Seriously, I have read that this (faxing them back) is about the worst thing you can do. Lets them know there is a "live wire" on the other end.

What is the point of her faxing back to a 0190 number anyway? These are toll in Germany, equivalent to calling a 1-900 number. That's the idea, they *want* you to get mad and call/fax them back....

[Edited at 2004-05-28 17:45]


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Michele Johnson  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 22:46
German to English
+ ...
What the IHK Frankfurt says May 28, 2004

Hi Sylvie,

That is really annoying about the fax spam. Probably you have already read what experts in Germany say, e.g. IHK Frankfurt:
http://www.frankfurt-main.ihk.de/recht/themen/wettbewerbsrecht/unlauterer_wettbewerb/fax_spam/
(Link in German, I will summarize here in English):

- "Robinson" List: add your name to this German do-not-call-list. http://www.robinsonlist.de/rob-fax.txt Not sure how effective this is; clearly many companies do not observe the list.

- Turn off your fax machine during the night. Obviously you already tried this!

- Pursue individual cases, e.g. via post, or check the list of companies who have been awarded 0190 numbers, http://www.regtp.de/reg_tele/02675/index.html

- Inform the Zentrale zur Bekämpfung unlauteren Wettbewerbs e.V. (a center for fighting unfair trade), http://www.wettbewerbszentrale.de/de/faq/detail.asp?id=1

- Check out websites like http://www.spammer-hammer.de/ or http://www.optimasoftware.de/werbefaxe.htm

Clearly you are not going to reply to a (toll) 0190 number. The IHK also advises not to respond to such spam faxes.

The website also refers to additional legal information here:
http://www.frankfurt-main.ihk.de/recht/themen/wettbewerbsrecht/rechtssprechung/

All not very practical, I'm afraid. Maybe the most effective would be to keep reading that darn manual and figure out how to turn off the ringer at night...




[Edited at 2004-05-28 17:27]


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LegalTransform  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:46
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Fax number on website May 28, 2004

Your problem is exactly why I removed my fax and phone number from my website.

Since that time, I have not received any junk faxes.



[Edited at 2004-05-28 19:04]


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sylvie malich
Germany
Local time: 22:46
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Jeff May 29, 2004

Jeff Whittaker wrote:

Your problem is exactly why I removed my fax and phone number from my website.

Since that time, I have not received any junk faxes.


Good point.
I've wanted to take my fax number out for a while. I'll do that.


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sylvie malich
Germany
Local time: 22:46
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Michele May 29, 2004

Michele Johnson wrote:

Hi Sylvie,


...All not very practical, I'm afraid. Maybe the most effective would be to keep reading that darn manual and figure out how to turn off the ringer at night...


Get this, Michele: There are two buttons on my phone, one marked with an "R", another with a bordered "P/(Parking sign)". So you'd logically think (oh if only it were logical), that the Parking sign would be the hold button, right? Noooooooo. The R (!) is the hold button -- you have to press and then key in a code of some sort that I still haven't located and then the party is on hold. (The R is referring to what you might ask? Shrug.) The parking sign is actually the "transfer call" button (parking sign, huh?). Press, give in code, transfer. Go figure. My American phone had a "Hold" button. Press, party's on hold, period. Press again, party's not on hold. You could also store numbers by pressing "Store" give in the number and press #. Man, I loved that phone.... I am still trying to figure out how to store numbers on the (very expensive I might add) ISDN phone. And being that time and motivation is limited, I haven't figured it out yet and I've had the phone for almost 2 years.

sigh.
syl


[Edited at 2004-05-30 14:27]


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