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10,000 errors can't be wrong!
Thread poster: David Brown
David Brown  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:24
Spanish to English
Oct 18, 2006

A current question (still not resolved) in Kudoz led me to do a bit of research on the Internet on what I thought was an erroneus answer to a previous Kudoz question.
I was looking into the term "ground rounds" as I had never come across this before in a medical context in translation or in my long hospital career.
One of my Google hits gave me this
http://www.acme-assn.org/valuable_resources/ResearchDigest05_06.pdf

Summary:
Mueller et al. conducted a survey about medical *ground rounds* (MGR) at departments of medicine at
US medical schools
This was an obvious mistake as the original published article says this:_
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16529134&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

Current status of medical *grand rounds *in departments of medicine at US medical schools.
Mueller PS, Segovis CM, Litin SC, Habermann TM, Parrino TA.

The web master of one of the pages I found "ground rounds" says it's a typo.

I have many other examples, but there are over 10,000 hits on Google for this and 2 of them are accepted proz kudoz answers

If you delve into the web-pages "grand rounds" comes up a lot more than "ground rounds"
HELP!!!


[Edited at 2006-10-18 16:49]


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Angeliki Papadopoulou  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 16:24
English to Greek
+ ...
Typo perhaps? Oct 18, 2006

By looking at the page from your first link it seems to me that it could easily be a typo. It says 'Grand rounds' in the title and as soon as you hit the body of text it says ground rounds. Years of editing have shown me that many times a specific word/mistake/what have you slips by a number of people and becomes apparent only when it has been printed into a million copies and it is too late to correct it!

Lina

[Edited at 2006-10-18 13:57]


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Tina Vonhof  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 07:24
Member (2006)
Dutch to English
+ ...
Too many hits on Google Oct 18, 2006

I too work in the medical field and have never heard "ground rounds" before. But there are too many hits on Google to assume that it is just a typo - it looks like it has become an accepted term. Nevertheless, in a translation I would stick to "grand rounds".

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GoodWords  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 07:24
Spanish to English
+ ...
An error that smells of eggcorn Oct 18, 2006

What is an eggcorn?

And eggcorns are not like just any amusing erroneous substitution: they are special because they arise when a writer knows an expression well enough to employ it in an appropriate context, but is mistaken about the term's or its constituents' meanings, origins or the underlying metaphors.


Tina Vonhof wrote:
But there are too many hits on Google to assume that it is just a typo - it looks like it has become an accepted term.


Not necessarily; I'm a prescriptivist when it comes to judging these kind of mistakes; even if those who understand the "correct" version of a term are in the minority, that doesn't make the erroneous version right. On the other hand, if you explore the Eggcorn Data Base you will find some fuzzy cases in which it's not clear which was the original, "correct" version. IMO, that's not the case, though, with "ground rounds". Ground round is a kind of minced meat, not physicians' rounds!

[Edited at 2006-10-18 17:16]


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David Brown  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:24
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER
Accepted error Oct 18, 2006

Tina Vonhof wrote:

But there are too many hits on Google to assume that it is just a typo - it looks like it has become an accepted term.


I know what you are trying to say, but I don't know anyone who would used "ground round" for "grand round" regardless of whether it was being translated.


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texjax DDS PhD  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:24
Member (2006)
English to Italian
+ ...
WHO Oct 18, 2006

David Brown wrote:
I don't know anyone who would used "ground round" for "grand round" regardless of whether it was being translated.


The WHO, World Health Organization, uses it.
" First electronic “ground rounds” consultation on SARS symptoms, diagnosis, and management is held, bringing together in real time 80 clinicians from 13 countries."
http://www.who.int/csr/don/2003_07_04/en/

That's enough for me.

Best Regards,





[Edited at 2006-10-18 22:11]


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craigs
Local time: 09:24
English to Portuguese
+ ...
I assume we're all laughing for the same reason . . . ? Oct 18, 2006

http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=ground%20round&btnG=Search
and medical ones are the best kind . . .

I have noticed that once a wayward gets an erroneous translation out there and it make it to the WWW, it's like Pandora's box, even harder to refute the mistake. Hey, it's on the web--it CAN'T be wrong.


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Refugio
Local time: 06:24
Spanish to English
+ ...
Sounds more like a joke, a pun Oct 19, 2006

Medical students have a lot of reasons to look for comic relief. Once a term like "ground round" for grand round gets into circulation, people start becoming fond of it because it provides a light moment. Some of my favorite eggcorns, deliberate or not, are god-offal for god-awful, ex-patriot for expatriate, pre-fix menu for prix fixe menu, and of course pre-Madonna for primadonna.

[Editado a las 2006-10-19 02:28]


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David Brown  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:24
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER
10,000 etc. Oct 19, 2006

[quote]David Brown wrote: 10,000 errors can't be wrong:-
I queried some of the errors with the authors:

Author: JonMikel, M.D.
Comment:
It was Grand Rounds.

I'm so sorry about that mistake, and thank you for pointing me.

See all comments on this post here:
http://www.unboundedmedicine.com/2005/11/02/kidneynotes-hosts-ground-rounds-this-week/#comments


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David Brown  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:24
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER
WHO? Oct 19, 2006

[quote]texjax wrote:

The WHO, World Health Organization, uses it.
" First electronic “ground rounds” consultation on SARS symptoms, diagnosis, and management is held, bringing together in real time 80 clinicians from 13 countries."
http://www.who.int/csr/don/2003_07_04/en/

That's enough for me.


So much information comes out of WHO, this was probably gathered from the internet, mistakes are also made. Here is the source of this reference:

March 26
The first global "grand round" on the clinical features and treatment of SARS is held by the WHO. The electronic meeting unites 80 clinicians from 13 countries; a summary of their discussions and conclusions is being made available on the SARS page of the WHO website,
http://www.who.int/csr/sars/cliniciansconference/en/.

Enough for me!


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Philippe Etienne  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:24
Member
English to French
The number of hits a new way to rate spelling? Oct 19, 2006

Look for "occurence" in Google...
I get more than 4M hits globally, so I must be right.
And "ocurrence"? Oh, 170k hits only?
So definitely "occurence" is more correct than "ocurrence".

Philippe

[Edited at 2006-10-19 09:54]


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David Brown  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:24
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER
OKURRANTS Oct 19, 2006

[quote]Philippe Etienne wrote:

Look for "occurence" in Google...
I get more than 4M hits globally, so I must be right.
And "ocurrence"? Oh, 170k hits only?
So definitely "occurence" is more correct than "ocurrence".

And of course "occurrence" is the correct spelling with over 176M hits!!!!
Maybe we should start a clean up the internet campaign


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David Brown  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:24
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER
10,000 errors can't be wrong or can they? Oct 20, 2006

[quote]David Brown wrote:

Ground rounds and grand rounds

I e-mailed the web masters/persons who were referenced with "ground round" and 8 out 12 have replied, all admitting it is an error as they too have never heard of the term "ground rounds" apart from 3 in the USA who mentioned it was a type of burger.

How about "climateric" and "climacteric" English use?


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MMUlr  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:24
English to German
+ ...
Let's try a more detailed / expanded Google search Oct 20, 2006

To give you the result of a specific expanded Google search:

Searching on English and university pages (.edu) only; searching for the exact phrases 'medical ground rounds' vs. 'medical grand rounds'

--> 23 vs. 36,000 hits!


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