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Off topic: grammatical
Thread poster: thondar
thondar
Local time: 18:27
English
Jun 24, 2007

Hi!

I play a famous game (i prefer don't say the name) and I've a problem to understand a rule. I already ask in specialistic forum but it give start to endless discussion.

Now i want to take a different approach. I dont want any rule-related (if you know the game) or logic or common sense help but only grammatical help.
This is the phrase (no copyright):

You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action.

The question is:
even when it is not your action is related to threaten or to attack?
Grammatically can be related to both?

For clarity in the first case i can rewording this way:
1) You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack
2) You threaten even when it is not your action (so you don't need to can attack when it is not your action)

In the second case:
1) You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack
2) even when it is not your action to threat you have to can attack.

thank you


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Jenny Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:27
Member (2006)
French to English
+ ...
Hmmm Jun 25, 2007

thondar wrote:

Hi!

I play a famous game (i prefer don't say the name) and I've a problem to understand a rule. I already ask in specialistic forum but it give start to endless discussion.

Now i want to take a different approach. I dont want any rule-related (if you know the game) or logic or common sense help but only grammatical help.
This is the phrase (no copyright):

You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action.

The question is:
even when it is not your action is related to threaten or to attack?
Grammatically can be related to both?

For clarity in the first case i can rewording this way:
1) You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack
2) You threaten even when it is not your action (so you don't need to can attack when it is not your action)

In the second case:
1) You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack
2) even when it is not your action to threat you have to can attack.

thank you


Well, my dear Thondar, your questions are so ungrammatical as to be virtually indecipherable - at least to me. Could you send the actual text of the rule that is unclear, perhaps?
Best of luck with your threatening!
Regards, Jenny.


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tectranslate ITS GmbH
Local time: 18:27
German
+ ...
Neither Jun 25, 2007

I think if you replace the word "action" with "turn", the whole thing becomes a whole lot clearer.

In this case, "it" wouldn't refer to either the threatening or attacking, but to "turn", i.e. "this turn is not your turn".

Maybe the linguists here can shed some more light on the specifics.

Benjamin

P.S.: Come on, tell us what game it is.


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Tony M  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 18:27
Member
French to English
+ ...
Quite — and not just the questions, either! Jun 25, 2007

Jenny Forbes wrote:

Well, my dear Thondar, your questions are so ungrammatical as to be virtually indecipherable - at least to me.


Me too, Jenny! And more importantly still, I think the wording of the rule is dodgy as well. We really need to know if this is proper, native English (in which case we have to assume it is intended that way, and try to make some sense out of it); or whether it is it flawed, non-native EN in the first place, in which case, Benjamin's suggestion is a highly plausible one...


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thondar
Local time: 18:27
English
TOPIC STARTER
thanks for answer Jun 25, 2007

Sorry...

This's the complete text:


Threatened Squares
You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity.

But i'm afraid it will mislead you... I think it's better to ignore this text

Remember that i'm just searching for a grammatical analysis of the phrase because i'm discussing about rules and common sense in the official D&D forum.

P.S.: Come on, tell us what game it is.

Ok. It's Dungeons & dragons.
It's an USA game.

I think if you replace the word "action" with "turn", the whole thing becomes a whole lot clearer.

Ok, you can do that.

Maybe i'm wrong but our problem is how the second phrase is related to the first:
"You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack"
"even when it is not your action"

"even" is the problem

In this case, "it" wouldn't refer to either the threatening or attacking, but to "turn", i.e. "this turn is not your turn".


It look like the first interpretation (see first post), right?
You threaten at all time (out of your turn, too) even when you can attack only in your turn (sometime it's possible to attack out of your turn too).

Thank you a lot for your time (and for your patience)


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thondar
Local time: 18:27
English
TOPIC STARTER
emmmh Jul 1, 2007

emmmh.. anyione say nothing?

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tectranslate ITS GmbH
Local time: 18:27
German
+ ...
Sorry, I don't follow off-topic threads closely, but: Jul 19, 2007

thondar wrote:

"even" is the problem

Why?

You threaten at all time (out of your turn, too) even when you can attack only in your turn (sometime it's possible to attack out of your turn too)

That's exactly what I meant, and that's what the text seems to mean as well.

This reminds me of the Jagged Alliance games on the PC where skilled characters could get "Interruptions" on enemies that were blundering into their field of fire. You had to have some action points left to do this, but it was kinda cool to thwart an enemy advance like that. OTOH, it was extremely annoying if it happened to you.

Regards,
Benjamin


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thondar
Local time: 18:27
English
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Jul 20, 2007

Thank you!
It was my interpretation too!!


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jack_speak  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:27
English to Portuguese
+ ...
I'm sorry - I have totally different interpretation, although you are all very close... Jul 31, 2007

I will write out my idea and post it in a few minutes.

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jack_speak  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:27
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Real answers. Jul 31, 2007

You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity.
You asked 3 questions and nobody answered:


Question 1:
"even when it is not your action is related to threaten or to attack? Grammatically can be related to both?"

Answer: NO. Only to "threaten."

Question 2:
"For clarity in the first case i can rewording this way:
1) You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack
2) You threaten even when it is not your action (so you don't need to can attack when it is not your action)"

Answer: the FIRST choice.

Question 3:
"In the second case:
1) You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack
2) even when it is not your action to threat you have to can attack."

Answer: this case is not legitimate.


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jack_speak  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:27
English to Portuguese
+ ...
another version in English Jul 31, 2007

Sounds like chess

"You threaten all opponents' pieces, whether directly or by precluding your opponent's options for movements..."

"Your strategy presents a threat to everyone whom your players could take, whether by your direct action or by your opponent's mistake." - think like in chess.


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thondar
Local time: 18:27
English
TOPIC STARTER
thank you Jul 31, 2007

"For clarity in the first case i can rewording this way:
1) You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack
2) You threaten even when it is not your action (so you don't need to can attack when it is not your action)"

Answer: the FIRST choice.

The second point was an add-on to the first one...

You can read:
You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack AND you threaten these squares even when it is not your action


[Edited at 2007-07-31 11:47]


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