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Differences in languages from the former Yugoslavia
Thread poster: Williamson

Williamson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:50
Flemish to English
+ ...
May 8, 2008

How big are the differences between Slovene, Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian?
A local interpreter school offers a third language, Croatian, as an optional part of its interpreter training curriculum (either you choose Croatian or Japanese). My personal interest goes to Japanese, but my sense of realism says that when you know Croatian, you will also understand Slovene, Bosnian and Serbian.

When watching a subtitled version of "Der Untergang" on Slovene television, I understood some subtitled words and the difference declination of male/female due to their similarity with Russian.



[Edited at 2008-05-08 14:49]


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Kemal Mustajbegovic  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:50
English to Croatian
+ ...
"Yoguslavia" May 8, 2008

I love your typo.

You might try to start with this "handbook".

http://www.seelrc.org:8080/grammar/mainframe.jsp?nLanguageID=1

GL

[Edited at 2008-05-08 13:22]


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Kemal Mustajbegovic  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:50
English to Croatian
+ ...
Yugoslavia May 8, 2008

Nice try but this is correct spelling.
Don't you have a spell-checker?


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Williamson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:50
Flemish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Name out of use May 8, 2008

Yes, but the name is not in use any longer.

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Kemal Mustajbegovic  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:50
English to Croatian
+ ...
History, yes May 8, 2008

Byzantine Empire is history as well but one knows how to spell it. Specially if one claims to be a linguist.

Sorry dear, I apologize for nasty comments. My twisted mood at the end of a difficult day is to be blamed.

BTW I think Japanese is significantly less controversial therefore I suggest you to stick to your "personal interest".

Cheers!


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Ivana Kahle  Identity Verified
Croatia
Local time: 20:50
Member (2007)
German to Croatian
+ ...
Similarities and differences May 8, 2008

Kemal, if there was a Dr. House in linguistics, that would be you
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind your sense of humor. As for the spelling, you're absolutely right, linguists should be familiar with spelling checker, no matter whether the word they are using is a 'contemporary' or a 'historical' one.
As for your question, Williamson, if you decide to learn Croatian you'll be able to understand pretty much of Bosnian and Serbian, not that much of Slovenian. I'm native in Croatian and understand almost all of the Serbian and Bosnian and about 50% of Slovenian. Anyway, Croatian should be easier to be learned than Japanese, although not that easy. If Croatian is going to be your third language, good luck


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jokerman
Germany
Local time: 20:50
English to German
+ ...
Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian... May 8, 2008

are nothing but three dialects of one language, only slightly different from each other.

Now start throwing your stones, my dear brothers and sisters !!


[Bearbeitet am 2008-05-08 17:40]


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Kemal Mustajbegovic  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:50
English to Croatian
+ ...
Hvala na komplimentu ;-) May 9, 2008

[quote]Ivana Kahle wrote:

Kemal, if there was a Dr. House in linguistics, that would be you


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Fabio Descalzi  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 15:50
Member (2004)
German to Spanish
+ ...
Look at this existing thread May 9, 2008

http://www.proz.com/topic/87058

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Williamson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:50
Flemish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Needle in haystack.... May 9, 2008

Kemal Mustajbegovic wrote:

Byzantine Empire is history as well but one knows how to spell it. Specially if one claims to be a linguist.

Sorry dear, I apologize for nasty comments. My twisted mood at the end of a difficult day is to be blamed.

BTW I think Japanese is significantly less controversial therefore I suggest you to stick to your "personal interest".

Cheers!


You never ever made a spelling mistake ? Pretend to be a linguist: next time, I'll ask the question in French or German or Spanish or Dutch, so that you can look for needles in haystacks in those languages. Actually, that programme offers the option between personal interest (Japan and Japanese culture) and applying at the E.U. with a languge of a future member-state: Croatia.


[Edited at 2008-05-09 06:36]


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Said Kaljanac a.k.a. SARAJ  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 20:50
Bosnian to French
+ ...
Interesting... May 9, 2008

jokerman wrote:

are nothing but three dialects of one language, only slightly different from each other.

Now start throwing your stones, my dear brothers and sisters !!


[Bearbeitet am 2008-05-08 17:40]


...are nothing but three dialects of one language? Which is...???


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Dragomir Kovacevic  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 20:50
Member
Italian to Serbian
+ ...
ISO-639-3 Serbo-Croatian as macro language May 9, 2008

Said Kaljanac a.k.a. SARAJ wrote:

nothing but three dialects of one language? Which is...??? [/quote]

Serbo-Croatian. Take a look into ISO-639-3. http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/macrolanguages.asp

SH is a macro-language of the "three". Great mamma language.

D


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Said Kaljanac a.k.a. SARAJ  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 20:50
Bosnian to French
+ ...
Not convinced May 9, 2008

Dragomir Kovacevic wrote:

Said Kaljanac a.k.a. SARAJ wrote:

nothing but three dialects of one language? Which is...???


Serbo-Croatian. Take a look into ISO-639-3. http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/macrolanguages.asp

SH is a macro-language of the "three". Great mamma language.

D [/quote]

Just when you say Serbo-Croatian, it means that it comes from Serbian and Croatian. Which means two languages, not one. Nontheless today we have four official languages - Croatian, Serbian, Bosnian and Montenegrin - the last two names being banished or "erased/eradicated" under the great mama language in the 20th century.


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Dragomir Kovacevic  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 20:50
Member
Italian to Serbian
+ ...
SO-639-3 Serbo-Croatian as macro language #2 May 10, 2008

Said Kaljanac a.k.a. SARAJ wrote:
... Bosnian and Montenegrin - the last two names being banished or "erased/eradicated" under the great mama language in the 20th century.


soon we'll see also Montenegrin added into the corpus of the great mamma language Serbo-Croatian, under ISO 639-3. now they became "free" as well, and before, were in a dungeon, with an imprisoned language, as well.


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Kemal Mustajbegovic  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:50
English to Croatian
+ ...
Once upon a time... May 10, 2008

... there were two languages - Croatian and Serbian. And two literatures. And two cultures. And then something happened in Vienna.

"Following the incentive of Austrian bureaucracy which preferred some kind of unified Croatian and Serbian languages for practical administrative reasons, in 1850, Slovene philologist Franc Miklošič initiated a meeting of two Serbian philologists and writers, Vuk Karadžić and Đuro Daničić together with five Croatian "men of letters": Ivan Mažuranić, Dimitrija Demetar, Stjepan Pejaković, Ivan Kukuljević and Vinko Pacel. The Vienna Agreement on the basic features of a unified "Croatian or Serbian" or "Serbo-Croatian" language was signed by all eight participants (including Miklošič)."

And then, after WWI, Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes was formed, which eventually became Kingdom of Yugoslavia in 1929. And the WWII, and ... you all know the history.

SC language, the artificial conglomerate of two languages had been maintained in order to satisfy the contemporary politics. Those who were born, bred and educated, as myself, in those days were thought that one language is "richer" if it has more synonyms.

I'll stop here because we all know these facts. It's just a matter of accepting them.

And for that link about "macrolanguage" where one can read:

"In various parts of the world, there are clusters of closely-related language varieties that … can be considered distinct individual languages, yet in certain usage contexts a single language identity for all is needed. Typical situations in which this need can occur include the following:

• There is a transitional socio-linguistic situation in which sub-communities of a single language community are diverging, creating a need for some purposes to recognize distinct languages while, for other purposes, a single common identity is still valid. For instance, in some contexts it is necessary to make a distinction between Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian languages, yet there are other contexts in which these distinctions are not discernible in language resources that are in use.

Where such situations exist, an identifier for the single, common language identity is considered in this part of ISO 639 to be a macrolanguage identifier."

I'm afraid, who ever wrote this had turned things upside-down.

So, let me make myself clear on this matter. Croatian and Serbian were and are two languages. During recent history they were "united" to satisfy daily politics.

And here this story ends in my book.


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