Differences between Spanish in USA and Spanish in Spain/Latin America
Kamran Nadeem United States Local time: 12:23 Member (2005) English to Urdu + ...
Aug 14, 2009
I wanted to know that Spanish written/spoken in USA is different from Spanish in Spain or Latin America?
[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2009-08-14 21:03 GMT]
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Parrot Spain Local time: 18:23 Member (2002) Spanish to English + ...
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One observation
Aug 14, 2009
The Spanish in Spain is already quite different from the Spanish in Latin America, and there are differences of usage between Latin American countries -- to begin with. Examples of those differences can be given by speakers in the countries concerned.
One observation among translators that I've remarked is in the treatment of neologisms. The Royal Academy technically begins to talk about neologisms with the Andalusi period, which was very much prior to contact with the Americas. These were initially borrowings grafted and grown onto the Greco-Latin and early medieval roots of the language.
Hence, the Spanish (peninsular) translator tends to refer back to Greek and Latin in rendering more modern neologisms, particularly where the source language also shares a Greco-Latin origin. This practice is followed in the formal language of many Latin American countries as well, but speakers are generally freer with borrowings in a mode more akin to direct code-switching. The scrapping of classical languages in modern school curricula may have had something to do with this, but where these roots have been downplayed for quite some time and a foreign language other than Greek or Latin may tend to become dominant, considerable differences may arise.
This is just one angle to investigate when talking about the differences. I'm sure our Spanish-speaking colleagues can enlighten you further.
[Edited at 2009-08-14 21:46 GMT]
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Henry Hinds United States Local time: 10:23 English to Spanish + ...
Differences
Aug 15, 2009
Spanish is and for many centuries has been a very well-regulated language due to the existence of the Spanish Royal Academy (Real Academia de la Lengua). It is the national language of some 20 countries and taught the same everywhere with the same spelling, grammar, etc. From that standpoint, then, it may be said that Spanish is very much a universal language because in general, all Spanish-speakers share the same common, uniform language and they can all understand one another quite well. Such is not the case with all multi-national languages including English, the most important one of all, which is less uniform than Spanish.
That said, there are still many differences, mostly minor, among the Spanish spoken in various parts of the Spanish-speaking world. There are some that in general would distinguish peninsular Spanish from that spoken in Latin America, but then again, there are also many differences within Latin America itself and also within Spain itself. I am not a student of that area, and besides, it goes on forever, so I'll leave it at that.
I understand your question to refer primarily to the differences between Spanish written and spoken in USA as opposed to Spanish in countries where it is the national language.
First, one fact that must always be taken into account is that Spanish is not the national language in the USA, although it is widely spoken here. Thus, there is no consistent pattern at all for Spanish in the USA. It is spoken by immigrants according to their own national origin which is as diverse as the Spanish-speaking world. It is always being influenced by the dominant language, English, and is subject to much distortion and contamination. It is learned in an incomplete fashion by US natives where Spanish is spoken in the family and by others as well, often subect to even more distortion and contamination.
The whole problem is compounded by the fact that there is little or no formal instruction in Spanish provided in US schools, so thus the benefits of this well-regulated language just plain go out the window (that is, they are cancelled out). Many people speak the language, but poorly and with many defects, and there are many who cannot even read or write it.
Thus, Spanish spoken in the USA is extremely irregular. It can be excellent in the case of educated native speakers, or it can be atrocious in the case of many others. It is heavily influenced by concentrations of people of different national origins. It is heavily influenced by the dominant language, English. It is subject to much degradation due to lack of opportunities for formal instruction.
I live in a US city bordering Mexico where much Spanish is spoken, so this is my personal experience. I have also raised a child who is bilingual in English and Spanish, yet she received few benefits from the educational system for learning Spanish; we had to teach her at home.
Perhaps we could do much better in the USA in cultivating a great national resource that is the Spanish language. Currently it is being wasted.
I thought it pertinent to add that there are vast differences in the way Spanish is used within communities, between neighbors and even within families, and also independently of social and educational status. When using Spanish in my own community I am always "feeling out" other persons' level of Spanish to adjust my own usage accordingly. Such is the case anywhere when dealing with people of varying social and educational status, but it is much more accentuated here. There are really no norms or standards for the Spanish language in the USA except for those few who choose to accept and cultivate the universal ones I have mentioned.
[Editado a las 2009-08-15 15:07 GMT]
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Lesley Clarke Mexico Local time: 11:23 Partial member (2005) Spanish to English
Great thread
Aug 15, 2009
I just want to complement Parrot and Henry for their wonderful answers to this thread.
Looking forward to seeing what other contributions there might be.
Just want to add, at a level of trivia, is that the Spanish spoken here in Central Mexico has a certain influence from Nahuatl, though mostly in the names of flora, fauna and foodstuffs.
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between Iberian and Latin American Spanish are:
1) In America we have replaced the plural “you” by the plural of the respectful second person: “usted”. So we say “ustedes” instead of "vosotros", and we use the conjugation that corresponds to the third plural person. For instance:
“you have” (plural) would be:
“vosotros tenéis” in Spain, but “ustedes tienen” in Latin America.
2) We use the pronoun “lo/la” when related to a direct object, and “le” when indirect. i.e.:
“Lo ví/la ví” (I saw him/I saw her)
“Le dije” (I told him or her)
In Spain they use “le” in both cases. Discussions on this subject are endless but we consider this to be “leísmo” and so do many Spanish linguists. This use is, however, endorsed by the RAE.
I work a lot with Spanish speakers in USA who have poor English. Unfortunately, in most cases their Spanish is also poor and riddled with loanwords. Not long ago someone told me he worked as a “librero” (book seller in Spanish). It turned out he delivered food.
In Latin America itself, countries that are closer to USA tend to incorporate more loanwords. I have recently seen two educated Mexicans using the word “acomodación” to mean “accommodation”. That word exists in Spanish but with a different meaning.
English syntax is also being imported into Spanish, everywhere, with appalling results in my view.
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This issue is extremely complex and I think you will see that the answers you receive are influenced by many different factors. As has already been explained there is more certainly NOT a Latin-American variant of Spanish nor is there a single Peninsular variety so to speak. There are vast differences(syntax, vocabulary, phonetics etc) within the Peninsula- Spanish from the Canary Islands is entirely different to Spanish spoken in Madrid to give one example. This is very important to understand. What is even more important is to avoid the generalisation that is "Latin-American Spanish". It does not exist. Spanish spoken in Guatemala is totally different, with distinct linguistic influences, than that spoken in Chile for example. Of course Spanish is one single language and not a collection of dialects in as far as educated speakers from all nations in which Spanish is spoken/is the official language can communicate without great difficulty.
However it is important not to dismiss the fact that a working class Uruguayan may have great difficulty in conversing with a working class Venezuelan. Class and educational background enable Spanish speakers(and speakers of all languages) to speak a more international and standardised version of their language in order to facilitate international communication. However the differences between the Spanish spoken in the countries in Latin America are understandably many. The area is huge and the influences are distinct across the continent. Personally I lived in Argentina and have studied the language with European speakers of Spanish so feel that I am most accustomed to these two variants(if we can call them that).
On the issue of Spanish in the USA I feel that other members have already made interesting comments and know the situation in that country better than I do. What I do recommend is that if you would like to learn more about Spanish as it's spoken across the world today you should read a book called "Exploring The Spanish Language" by Professor Christopher Pountain. I studied with the author and can recommend this publication as a great introduction to this fascinating topic. I hope that this doesn't go against any sort of proz.com regulations but as far as I can tell it doesn't so here is the link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/034071946X?ie=UTF8&redirect=true
Good luck with your research!
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in the Spanish spoken in different countries or within the same country and they are mostly phonetic, some lexical, mostly seen in colloquial speech. I am a native Spanish speaker from Argentina and have never experienced any communication issues with the huge number of Spanish speakers from different parts of Spain and Latin America with whom I have spoken. There might be the occasional different word or expression but it can be explained or understood within the context. Educated Spanish speakers do not have to make any efforts to speak with each other, no matter where they come from.
A very low standard of education is of course limiting, but not only with regard to Spanish speakers from other parts of the world. Poorly educated speakers often have trouble expressing themselves outside their limited repertoire (for instance, they have trouble with timelines, background, circumstances or whenever there is more than one factor, person of fact involved in a given situation).
Those problems are exacerbated when poorly educated Spanish speakers live in a country where a different language is spoken (like the USA).
The two main grammatical differences with Iberian Spanish I pointed out above are consistent across Latin America.
“Working class Uruguayans” is not a category in itself and you would be surprised at how articulate most Uruguayans are, since standards of education in that country are quite good across the board.
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I am aware that Uruguay is the country with the highest quality of life in Latin America and an excellent education system. I have been there many times. You appear to have misunderstood my point. I am not inferring with my statement that all Uruguayans are working class. I am merely trying to illustrate that, as you yourself have explained, that the Spanish speakers who will have most difficulty in understanding speakers from other countries and in making themselves understood are those with little education/from a rural/working-class background, and it is often the case that these categories are one and the same. I am aware that educated Argentineans can communicate perfectly well with educated Colombians, Spaniards etc. That is what I meant when I said "Of course Spanish is one single language and not a collection of dialects in as far as educated speakers from all nations in which Spanish is spoken/is the official language can communicate without great difficulty."
However from a linguistic perspective I think that it is foolish to dismiss or refuse to acknowledge the incredible variety and richness the language has in the different countries in which it is spoken. For example, how many Mexicans can understand Lunfardo? That is what I am getting at. The everyday colloquial speech of people in Montevideo and Buenos Aires is extremely different to that of Mexico City. And realistically when, as a non-native speaker, you study Spanish and live in a Spanish speaking country it is these differences which will cause problems. Equally, in an international scenario an educated Spaniard and an educated Mexican for example, when engaged in conversation, will standardise their language in order to facilitate communication. When the Mexican visits Spain and spends time there he will realise that there are a plethora of words, grammatical constructions, idioms and other linguistic features of the other particular variety of the language that he is not accustomed to. And that, is my point.
One more example; how many different words are there for drinking straw in Spanish? I know three; from Argentina, Mexico and Spain. They are the only countries I am familiar enough with to know but I am sure that there are others. That is significant, I believe.
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Laureana Pavon Uruguay Local time: 13:23 Member English to Spanish + ...
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"Lunfardo", "Working class Uruguayans"
Aug 16, 2009
Christopher Fitzsimons BA(Hons) wrote:
For example, how many Mexicans can understand Lunfardo? That is what I am getting at. The everyday colloquial speech of people in Montevideo and Buenos Aires is extremely different to that of Mexico City.
I think Henry and Parrot have given you a great idea of the main differences.
But please let me clarify a couple of points.
"Lunfardo" is not the everyday colloquial speech of people in Montevideo and Buenos Aires but a dialect (please believe me, I'm an Argentinean living in Montevideo for more than 10 years now). Not many people in Buenos Aires understand lunfardo, at least not nowadays.
As to the "working class Uruguayans", let me tell you that they would be perfectly able to understand their Venezuelan peers. As mentioned, language differences are mostly phonetic and lexical (what you refer to as the number of words for drinking straw). I think you are giving very little credit to the "working class", Uruguayan or otherwise.
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I am not intending to give anyone less credit than they are due.
This issue is similar in all languages. In English, people from different areas of the British isles can have great difficulty in understanding one another and the differences are also "only" phonetic and lexical. And that is in a very small geographical area with much shared history/media etc. So of course in countries with such different historical influences on the Castellano spoken there such as Venezuela and Argentina, there are linguistic differences. Yes, these can be overcome- I have not denied that. However I simply believe that it is important, in order to answer this question properly, not to dismiss these differences. After all the asker does not speak Spanish and going on what he has read here could study Mexican Spanish and expect to then be able to perfectly understand colloquial Chilean Spanish...
My point is that there are significant lexical, phonetic, morphological and syntaxical differences between Spanish speaking nations and these differences are increasing.
"The vocabularies of both varieties(European and Rioplatense) are further diverging as Rioplatense Spanish tends to borrow (or calque) technical words from American English, while Peninsular Spanish tends to borrow or calque them from British English or French."
Words like pollera, remera, valija, pancho, poroto, frutilla, damasco etc, all used in everyday Spanish in Buenos Aires(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rioplatense_Spanish) are different from those used in other countries. Lunfardo is a turn of the century dialect and of course is not still spoken as it was one hundred years ago however it(and the immigration to the River Plate area which caused it's formation) have left their mark on the Spanish spoken in the area nowadays.
I studied variants of Spanish at the University of Buenos Aires and the University of London and am very interested in this area of linguistics.
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Henry Hinds United States Local time: 10:23 English to Spanish + ...
With time and effort, yes
Aug 16, 2009
Many years ago I went to Chile knowing Mexican Spanish and naturally I was not able to perfectly understand colloquial Chilean Spanish right off the bat, but after some time and effort I was able to get it down pretty well. Of course after going back many years later, then a lot of things have changed! Things change all the time in Mexican Spanish too, and there are many differences from place to place.
That is just part of the dynamics of language. Nonetheless, we all still manage to understand one another pretty well, and we have fun doing it.
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Lucia Colombino Uruguay Local time: 13:23 Member (2007) English to Spanish + ...
Colorful, not impossible to understand
Aug 16, 2009
Henry Hinds wrote:
rst, one fact that must always be taken into account is that Spanish is not the national language in the USA, although it is widely spoken here. Thus, there is no consistent pattern at all for Spanish in the USA. It is spoken by immigrants according to their own national origin which is as diverse as the Spanish-speaking world. It is always being influenced by the dominant language, English, and is subject to much distortion and contamination. It is learned in an incomplete fashion by US natives where Spanish is spoken in the family and by others as well, often subect to even more distortion and contamination.
The whole problem is compounded by the fact that there is little or no formal instruction in Spanish provided in US schools, so thus the benefits of this well-regulated language just plain go out the window (that is, they are cancelled out). [...] [/quote]
Henry and cgowar have provided really great explanations of the situation.
As to the differences between Iberian and Latin American Spanish: besides what Laureana has pointed out, I would be more concerned with marginalized sectors of the society than with the working class. But even then, possibly due to the enormous influence of television programs, I really think that most people find the Spanish spoken in other parts of the Americas or in Spain to be "colorful" rather than impossible to understand.
A case in point is a song by Joaquín Sabina in which he takes very local Buenos Aires expressions, makes very specific allusions to the football club Boca Juniors, yet the song sold millions of copies on both sides of the Atlantic.
Thank you all for your enlightening comments...this thread has been a wonderful break in an otherwise rather unexciting series of technical translations.
Have a lovely morning, afternoon or evening, as your case may be.
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