| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | British English versus American English Thread poster: liz askew
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Tim Drayton 
Cyprus
Local time: 17:24
Turkish to English
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If I have understood the situation correctly, you have nothing to worry about. Your job was to deliver the best posible translation to the agency. This you did. The buck stops there as far as you are concerned. The agency may simply pass on your translation to the client unaltered, or have it edited/proofread/corrected. That is their business not yours.
| | | | | AE speaker correcting BE? | Mar 12, 2009 |
I actually once had a scenario in which this was desired. The client wanted American English, but wanted me (a Brit) to do the translation. I pointed out the problem, but then said: OK, I can do the AE spellcheck thing, but if you want real AE you need to get an American to edit it. Client said OK, and I assume that's what they did (my bit was only to deliver the translation, not to check the proofreading).
Otherwise, I always point out in any quote and in my first e-mail to potent... See more I actually once had a scenario in which this was desired. The client wanted American English, but wanted me (a Brit) to do the translation. I pointed out the problem, but then said: OK, I can do the AE spellcheck thing, but if you want real AE you need to get an American to edit it. Client said OK, and I assume that's what they did (my bit was only to deliver the translation, not to check the proofreading).
Otherwise, I always point out in any quote and in my first e-mail to potential new clients that I do British English. That usually avoids any misunderstanding - although I once had a client who apparently didn't take it seriously and who sent me a job, agreed everything and then said as an after-thought "Oh, by the way, we need American English on this one". (They modified their requirements after I explained the situation.)
If a client decides to have my translation into British English proofread by an American and localised (sorry, localized) into AE, that is the client's choice, and I have no problem with it. If the client asks me to comment on the changes, I just point out the different geographical variants of English and the problems that can arise from this way of working.
By the way, for me this is nothing to do with any inferior or superior brand of English. It is a fact of life that the variants of English differ in some ways, and I merely offer what I can do best. ▲ Collapse
| | | | liz askew
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:24
Member (2007)
French to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Quick to blame.. | Mar 12, 2009 |
Dear Igor
Through lack of the entire context you have been quick to blame me..
Let me add that the work I am talking about here is for a client I work for on a weekly basis, based in Spain. The client KNOWS [I am not shouting] I am British.
Liz
| | | | liz askew
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:24
Member (2007)
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | defence/defense | Mar 12, 2009 |
Dear Henry
Your reply more or less sums up my entire sentiments.
Yes, I do believe it is entirely the client's fault [perhaps playing the role of impartial interpreter many times makes it difficult for me to call a spade a spade:-)].
Fancy getting an American to proofread British English? and vice-versa, so nobody can accuse me of bias.
The reason I stick to my native British English is because I don't want to open up a proverbial can of worms... See more Dear Henry
Your reply more or less sums up my entire sentiments.
Yes, I do believe it is entirely the client's fault [perhaps playing the role of impartial interpreter many times makes it difficult for me to call a spade a spade:-)].
Fancy getting an American to proofread British English? and vice-versa, so nobody can accuse me of bias.
The reason I stick to my native British English is because I don't want to open up a proverbial can of worms.
There are many differences between American English and British English and these have been highlighted by other language specialists on this forum and I don't want to pretend otherwise or be dishonest in my profession. It is no good just to put on the spell checker and say I can do the translation into American English. What an insult to the Americans! I am not in this profession to make a few extra bucks/quid.
I prefer to be true to myself and lay my cards on the table.
Where are we going otherwise? This is not just about earning money, but about honesty in the profession.
Tell me to get off my high horse, but hey I know where I am coming from!
By the way, when I received the corrections to my translation, I immediately pointed out to the client that most of them were based on different spellings and grammar, although they already knew/should have known and respected that I was British!
I have probably blotted my copy book in the way others view me, but not in respecting my own sense of worth and values.
And let me make it 100% clear. There was no implication/reference to American English being inferior, as one colleague said [entirely a comment of their own making]. I was talking about "differences". Perhaps when everybody realises that it is all about difference, then we can actually start respecting language and the translation profession.
Regards
Liz ▲ Collapse
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| Differences and differences | Mar 12, 2009 |
There are differences between UK and American English, but that does not stop us from understanding each other (almost) 100%. (I understand Californians and New Yorkers better than some people living in certain parts of the UK)
When you are putting pen to paper there is a difference though. I could never claim to be able to write in the Amercian English way, where the - albeit mostly minute - differences in grammar, spelling, punctuation, style and lexis would stand out more obvio... See more There are differences between UK and American English, but that does not stop us from understanding each other (almost) 100%. (I understand Californians and New Yorkers better than some people living in certain parts of the UK)
When you are putting pen to paper there is a difference though. I could never claim to be able to write in the Amercian English way, where the - albeit mostly minute - differences in grammar, spelling, punctuation, style and lexis would stand out more obviously.
Whoever contacts me to do a translation I aseume knows I write UK English. It is not up to me to check this every time. ▲ Collapse
| | | | hazmatgerman (X)
Local time: 16:24
English to German
| BE/AE viz Economist | Mar 12, 2009 |
Patricia Lane wrote: Just as an example, read Business Week and the Economist! I subscribe to the latter and cannot help but smile each time I read the verb "to reckon" which, in US English, is not considered high brow 
Perhaps there is more to dinstinguish the latter from the former than style. Substance, or international coverage, to name just two aspects.
Regards.
| | | | | Unfortunately not 100% | Mar 12, 2009 |
Spencer Allman wrote:
There are differences between UK and American English, but that does not stop us from understanding each other (almost) 100%. (I understand Californians and New Yorkers better than some people living in certain parts of the UK)
Unfortunately, while I agree that Americans and Britons understand each other most of the time, there is potential for misunderstandings which could be disastrous. Imagine, for example, an American being advised to walk "on the pavement"!
Also, my immediate reaction to Igor's posting was to ask how he came to the conclusion that Liz considers US English to be inferior. This is not implied anywhere in her posting. I see that she has now pointed this out herself, but I just want to back her up there.
My advice to Liz (which I think is the consensus here), is to make it clear to clients that she translates to British English - not because this variant is somehow "superior", but because that is the English she knows best. I do feel, however, that if she finds the client is using US English speakers to proof-read her work, then she is entitled to raise a polite objection, especially as some agencies seem to count the number of "corrections" made by proof-readers as strikes against the translator! This may surprise some people, but I know of at least one major agency (and I mean major) which does this. I no longer work for the said agency, partly because it also used at least one proof-reader who completely misunderstood the point and deliberately made as many changes as possible in my work - most of which were simply based on differences in style and personal preference. The agency, amazingly, didn't seem to understand this; just imagine the results if they also used an American to proof-read my British English translations!
Geoff
| | | | liz askew
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:24
Member (2007)
French to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Let us avoid opening up a can of worms | Mar 12, 2009 |
Hello Geoff
I understand your sentiments entirely.
Yes, I do make it 100% clear to all my clients that I am British. I spent about 3 weeks in the United States of America and Canada, camping, many years ago, so my knowledge of American English is pretty hopeless:-) Nor do I have any American friends here in the UK, so I cannot pretend to know any other English, except British English!
It seems that as long as I am clear in what I am prepared to do and take ... See more Hello Geoff
I understand your sentiments entirely.
Yes, I do make it 100% clear to all my clients that I am British. I spent about 3 weeks in the United States of America and Canada, camping, many years ago, so my knowledge of American English is pretty hopeless:-) Nor do I have any American friends here in the UK, so I cannot pretend to know any other English, except British English!
It seems that as long as I am clear in what I am prepared to do and take on, then all will be well. With my world, at least:-)
Cheers!
Liz ▲ Collapse
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hazmatgerman wrote: Patricia Lane wrote: Just as an example, read Business Week and the Economist! I subscribe to the latter and cannot help but smile each time I read the verb "to reckon" which, in US English, is not considered high brow Perhaps there is more to dinstinguish the latter from the former than style. Substance, or international coverage, to name just two aspects. Regards.
Which is why I subscribe
The side benefit is honing my awareness of linguistic differences.
| | | | | Definitely divided by a common language | Mar 13, 2009 |
Spencer Allman wrote:
There are differences between UK and American English, but that does not stop us from understanding each other (almost) 100%.
Really? Almost 100%? That's news to me. I visited my fiancé for a few years when she was studying in Oxford, and I frequently had no idea what her friends were saying or what the road signs meant. And that was with what I thought was a "good" working knowledge of UK English from frequent exposure to native speakers of its dialects around Europe.
I'm always willing to try to accommodate an international audience, but when someone comes along with a job that really must be in "real UK" English, I send him off to find a real Brit. Anything else would be dishonest of me. My experiences of mixing and matching AE translators with BE reviewers or vice versa are also not very good. It's often a very foolish thing to do except in very special circumstances. On those rare occasions when I agree to edit a translated text and someone gives me the work of a BE translator, I often find myself about to change something I am sure is wrong or at least sounds awful, only to discover that the offending expression is on every tongue in London.
No thanks - I'll stick to what I know and do best.
| | | | Stephen Gobin
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:24
German to English
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| Agree with Kevin | Mar 16, 2009 |
I agree with Kevin based on my own experiences.
Your belief that you had a "good" working knowledge of BE based on exposure to native BE speakers in continental Europe was obviously proved wrong once you arrived in Oxford. The BE speakers you had met on the Continent are hardly representative of BE in all its facets: these speakers are a tiny niche, undoubtedly highly educated, working in the liberal professions and, I guess, "de bonne famille" as well ... See more I agree with Kevin based on my own experiences.
Your belief that you had a "good" working knowledge of BE based on exposure to native BE speakers in continental Europe was obviously proved wrong once you arrived in Oxford. The BE speakers you had met on the Continent are hardly representative of BE in all its facets: these speakers are a tiny niche, undoubtedly highly educated, working in the liberal professions and, I guess, "de bonne famille" as well But when you got to Oxford you were surrounded by English language and culture on its home turf. And like learning a foreign language or suffering from a degree of hearing loss you probably had to concentrate hard on what was being said and probably even then found it difficult to pick up on everything.
The difficulty stems from the fact that many people think that AE and BE are either interchangeable or that one variant is always "right" and the other patently "wrong" (yes, I've even noticed this trait appearing on Kudoz questions). This closeness between AE and BE is a real difficulty because it is all too easy for native speakers of either variant to continue translating away into the other variant while remaining blissfully unaware of where linguistic and cultural differences may even exist in the first place.
I was recently offered to translate an 80-page German booklet about diabetes aimed at physicians. The text made perfect sense to me having been a diabetic for nearly 30 years, but the target audience was American physicians ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Language variant issues | Mar 17, 2009 |
Working with Portuguese already presents a considerable problem with its European and Brazilian variants, farther apart than the US-UK variants in English. More info about this at http://www.proz.com/translation-articles/articles/1675/ . These PT variants are legally one and the same language as source, but two different languages as destination.
Too many outsourcers, ... See more Working with Portuguese already presents a considerable problem with its European and Brazilian variants, farther apart than the US-UK variants in English. More info about this at http://www.proz.com/translation-articles/articles/1675/ . These PT variants are legally one and the same language as source, but two different languages as destination.
Too many outsourcers, and even end-clients, seem to be totally unaware of that. This is why I wrote that article. Mostly for the last reason explained there, to adequately cover the Portuguese-speaking market one should have two different web pages, provide two separate instruction manuals, and so on.
It's enough for a translator to have one such problem, but how about having two of them?
I began studying ESL at age 9 in a clearly EN-US language school, its name said so. In those days all teachers were true natives. Two years later, they moved quarters and my family moved too. In the new home, there was an EN-UK language school within walking distance, so I moved there. At that time, I knew so little that I failed to notice any significant difference apart from the accent. As I stayed there. my ESL certificates are from the University of Cambridge.
Life took care of reversing that. My first trip to the USA made me switch to EN-US upon learning to speak it fluently for real. Working for American companies in Brazil during 14 years helped to consolidate that. Later, frequent trips to the USA made it rock solid. There is no trace of EN-UK left in me.
And now some translation agencies ask for my ESL certificates. The Cambrifge U ones are stashed away. I won't mention them, so people will never expect translations into EN-UK from me. I just mention that I am a certified public translator of English by the Brazilian government. At least someone has tested my English skills and found them good enough to translate. If they demand certificates, mine will be misleading for sure.
So this solves half of my variant issues.
[Edited at 2009-03-17 11:45 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Alaa Zeineldine
Egypt
Local time: 16:24
Member (2002)
English to Arabic
+ ...
| Interesting mix | Mar 23, 2009 |
One of the interesting cases I've seen was a technical regulatory standard with a delightful mix of both variants. The seventy four page document must have been written by a multinational committee and handed over to a BE speaker for cursory proofreading. Otherwise, someone on the committee must have fed the thing through a BE spell checker.
Among different factors leading to automobile crashes, one part of the document mentioned wheel rims digging into the pavement, while in anot... See more One of the interesting cases I've seen was a technical regulatory standard with a delightful mix of both variants. The seventy four page document must have been written by a multinational committee and handed over to a BE speaker for cursory proofreading. Otherwise, someone on the committee must have fed the thing through a BE spell checker.
Among different factors leading to automobile crashes, one part of the document mentioned wheel rims digging into the pavement, while in another part of the document, wet or slippery pavements accounted for loss of traction and skidding events. Of course, no text on the subject would be complete without reference to the limitations of "tyre/pavement friction" on the vehicle's ability to stay on the road.
The period was placed inside the quotation marks once; the rest were full stops.
Unfortunately, I could not render the amusing features of this document for my Arabic speaking audience. ▲ Collapse
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