Lingua 5B Bosnia and Herzegovina Local time: 11:04 Member (2009) English to Croatian + ...
Closed groups of people - the singular form
Oct 20, 2009
It depends on the type of the nudist beach and the specific moment/context.. I guess it's different when it's people who hang around together regularly comparing to when they are complete strangers... it also depends on the type of chat.. if someone is trying to be friendly, then it's one thing.. if someone's just asking about a direction on the road or a favor, then it's different.. and also their age, that may be most important.. people of the same age are less likely to use plural forms for each other, unlike when they are addressing people ( much) older than them.
Using the polite plural form can also be a personal choice to keep the other person at a (psychological) distance .. you are basically implying " do not cross the line of formality with me" - in any sense.
I have a friend who uses the plural form when addressing his grandmother.. that's very weird.
[Edited at 2009-10-20 22:28 GMT]
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Sheila Wilson France Local time: 11:04 Member (2007) French to English + ...
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polite forms can be seen as a wall/fence/barrier
Oct 20, 2009
Lingua 5B wrote:
Using the polite plural form can also be a personal choice to keep the other person at a (psychological) distance .. you are basically implying " do not cross the line of formality with me" - in any sense.
This is certainly what some of my French students say, referring to it as a wall - and they are a little worried about not having this nice safe barrier in their new lives in the UK or America.
BTW in my reference to naturists, I wasn't thinking of chance meetings on nudist beaches - rather about the world of naturism where people choose to live 24 hours a day clothes-free (subject to weather, local laws, etc). There are many holiday centres where your clothes, and all the hangups that go with them, are optional in the evening and frankly frowned upon on sunny days. People live as equals - equally fat, thin, spotty, blobby, saggy, puny - what you see is what you get, nothing up the sleeve!
[Edited at 2009-10-20 18:55 GMT]
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ViktoriaG Canada Local time: 05:04 Member (2005) English to French + ...
Another option
Oct 21, 2009
Sheila Wilson wrote:
Interestingly, the "rule" in France is that naturists always use the informal version of you (tu) - even to a complete stranger, as long as they, too, are naturists. Why should that be? Because there are no preconceived ideas of which one is "better"? Or perhaps it's because, by definition, naturists are people who are "happy in their skins"...
I think it is rather because they apparently have something in common (being naked in front of strangers) which already draws them closer together or because they are revealing something very intimate already (their dangling parts), so to hell with formal address at that point.
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Sheila Wilson France Local time: 11:04 Member (2007) French to English + ...
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You couldn't be further from the truth
Oct 22, 2009
About naturists,
ViktoriaG wrote:
I think it is rather because they apparently have something in common (being naked in front of strangers) which already draws them closer together
That gives them as much in common as two people waiting for a bus - naturists simply don't notice who's clothed and who isn't, any more than you could describe what the person in front of you in the bus queue was wearing.
or because they are revealing something very intimate already (their dangling parts), so to hell with formal address at that point.
The danglies are no more intimate to a naturist than their fingers dangling at the end of their arms. They are only intimate in an intimate situation (eg in the bedroom, in privacy). When you're sharing a row of showers, there's nothing very intimate about it - you're just washing!
Anyway, I apologise for having hijacked my own thread, but I do think the different behaviour of naturists has something to do with mutual and self respect, and the breaking down of society's rather arbitrary barriers.
(edited for typo)
[Edited at 2009-10-22 09:21 GMT]
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Karin Maack Germany Local time: 11:04 Partial member (2006) English to German
Good description, Sheila
Oct 22, 2009
I couldn't agree more with your description of naturists! They clearly show that clothes are not necessary to respect each other, they don't judge (because they can't) people according to their clothes or the social position that is often indicated by clothes.
I think you can show respect by listening to people and not interrupting them (just for example).
Sometimes I give private English lessons to school kids. The normal thing is that I use the familiar "du" and they use the polite "Sie" as address. But sometimes it happens that after a while a kid slips into the familiar "du" which I don't understand as disrespectful but rather as a compliment. I think it is important to bear in mind what people seem to feel and not what kind of words they use.
But for us as translators, words are paramount, of course!
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Sheila Wilson France Local time: 11:04 Member (2007) French to English + ...
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Thanks, Karin
Oct 22, 2009
German, Dutch and Scandinavian people generally have a very healthy attitude to the body and they're in the majority at all naturist camsites etc. It seems odd that those in colder climates are quickest to disrobe - just shows what an odd lot we are!
I agree that listening attentively to someone is a sign of respect and interrupting, even using the formal form of address, is disrespectful.
As you say, if people feel comfortable with each other it's only natural for them to forget the formal conventions, even if that's not socially acceptable. In a teaching relationship, you encourage students to talk about themselves and I find it difficult to address someone formally after hours of "chat" about our families and likes/dislikes. Asking someone if they cut their toenails in the bath, using formal address, must be really weird! Fortunately for me, I ask in English - what a problem it must be for those teaching French, German etc. Even translating dialogue from English to those languages must be a minefield - I feel for you all
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The translation workplace 
, but I do think the different behaviour of naturists has something to do with mutual and self respect, and the breaking down of society's rather arbitrary barriers.
