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Where do the words kudoz, browniz and powwow come from?
Thread poster: Javier Herrera
Javier Herrera
Spanish
Jul 8, 2004

Hi there. My question is in the title. I'm curious. What do they exactly mean outside a prozian context?
Regards,
Javier


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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
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kudos, brownies, powwow Jul 8, 2004

Kudos, meaning renown, or acclaim, from the Greek;
Brownies, a short form of "brownie points", meaning gaining credit by performing services, presumably from the "Brownies" (named after a kind of fairy), the junior section of the Girl Guide (or Girl Scout) movement, in which badges are earned by accumulating points, often used sarcastically nowadays; and "powwow" from the Red Indian - oops, should say Native American now I suppose - word for a conference of the tribe.
The letter zed (or zee) at the end of KudoZ and BrowniZ, as well as ProZ itself, I imagine was Henry's own idea.


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Parrot  Identity Verified
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I think there was already a pros.com Jul 8, 2004

It was just lucky there's a pronunciation rule about words like 'close' (read, 'cloze').

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Edward Potter  Identity Verified
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Heh heh heh Jul 8, 2004

When I was growing up we always understood "brownie points" to come from "brown nosing" as in brown nosing the teacher gets you brownie points. The term brown nosing is a little bit off color but brownie points can be used in just about any context without sounding bad.

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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
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Yes, there is still a pros.com Jul 8, 2004

I just tried http://www.pros.com and found it is the website of a firm called Proactive Software, or ProS for short.

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Henk Peelen  Identity Verified
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Sweet dreams! Jul 9, 2004

Jack Doughty wrote:

...
and "powwow" from the Red Indian - oops, should say Native American now I suppose - word for a conference of the tribe.
The letter zed (or zee) at the end of KudoZ and BrowniZ, as well as ProZ itself, I imagine was Henry's own idea.



A very seasoned linguist once told me:

Chris Hopley wrote:
Engels?

Powwow comes from Algonquian and apparently means 'he dreams', a term used to refer to the medicine man or priest.
,

whereas Hyperdictionary ( http://www.hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=powwow )says:


Definition: [n] (informal) a quick private conference
[v] hold a powwow, talk, conference or meeting

Synonyms: huddle

See Also: conference, discuss, group discussion, huddler, talk over

Webster's 1913 Dictionary

Definition: Pow"wow`, v. i.
1. To use conjuration, with noise and confusion, for the cure
of disease, etc., as among the North American Indians.

2. Hence: To hold a noisy, disorderly meeting. [Colloq. U.
S.]



Hmmm, didn't know you had to be noisy? Perhaps Webster's interpret powwow as
pow! wow!
or
pow! ow!

[Edited at 2004-07-09 19:14]


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 22:12
SITE FOUNDER
Jack, Parrot, Edward and Henk have it Jul 9, 2004

Everything said so far in this thread is accurate. That just about tells the whole story!

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Clarisa Moraña  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 23:12
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English to Spanish
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Something else to add! Jul 9, 2004

I've some additional information about the word Kudoz!
As Jack said, "kudos" cames from Greek, and expresses fame, approval and commendation. But it was one of the words introduced into the English language by Henry Luce, a brilliant man, who together with Brit Hadden, cofounded Time (1923) at the age of 24!

Luce loved to introduce new words, that were popularized by Time. Today we are all familiarized with words such as "tycoon", "pundit", and "smog". All of them were introduced by Luce at TIME! Sure, he failed with some: Broadwayfarer, nudancer, sexational, twinsult, politricks, newshawk .

Here you have some of the words that were succesfully introduced by Time newsmagazine into the English language:

socialite, World War II, male chauvinist, op art, televangelist... Have you ever heard any of then?

Regards

Clarisa


[Edited at 2004-07-09 18:17]


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Javier Herrera
Spanish
TOPIC STARTER
Oh! Jul 9, 2004

Nice bedtime reading. Thanks for your answers, they've caused a few more questions: how ON EARTH do you pronounce kudoz?
I assume powwow rhymes with 'how about', makes sense. But is the word very widely used in American English? I never heard it in Britain.
Thanks again.


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konan
Yemen
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I Think All of You Did the Best Jul 10, 2004

HI GENTLEMEN !!

First of all, I would like to thank u all for that nice chance to be with u at this excellent forum. And, secondly, I want to say that such words as the members said are suitable to the Greek.


Thanks again, and accept me as a new member at your forum.


Regards,

Mohammed Al Homaidi


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DGK T-I  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
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kudos to Henry Luce, but not for introducing kudos Jul 10, 2004

Clarisa Moraña wrote:

I've some additional information about the word Kudoz!
As Jack said, "kudos" cames from Greek, and expresses fame, approval and commendation. But it was one of the words introduced into the English language by Henry Luce, a brilliant man, who together with Brit Hadden, cofounded Time (1923) at the age of 24!

Luce loved to introduce new words, that were popularized by Time.


I hadn't heard of Luce before, thank you - he sounds interesting(although, alas, he can't lay claim to introducing kudos to the English language. From what Clarisa says, it sounds as if he introduced plenty of other words though.)


Oxford Eng.Dict.
Glory, fame, renown.
(slang (orig. University) and colloq.)

1831 Fraser's Mag. III. 391 He obtained kudos immense. 1841 DISRAELI 23 Feb. in Corr. w. Sister (1886) 171, I am spoken of with great kudos in ‘Cecil’. 1859 DARWIN in Life & Lett. (1887) II. 168 Lyell has read about half of the volume in clean sheets, and gives me very great kudos. 1889 Boy's Own Paper 17 Aug. 729/1 Our champion was held to have lost no kudos in the encounter. 1970 G. F. NEWMAN Sir, You Bastard vii. 196 News services buzzed, but George Doodie sought no kudos; his name was mentioned only once. 1972 J. CREASEY Splinter of Glass vii. 55 He wanted Roger to take the kicks if this failed but was prepared to give him the kudos if the use of the newspapers succeeded.

Giuli~
(Eng Rus Geo)

[Edited at 2004-07-10 21:19]


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Clarisa Moraña  Identity Verified
Argentina
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Thanks! Jul 11, 2004

Dr. Giuli Kvrivishvili wrote:

I hadn't heard of Luce before, thank you - he sounds interesting(although, alas, he can't lay claim to introducing kudos to the English language. From what Clarisa says, it sounds as if he introduced plenty of other words though.)



Oops! Your comments make me to review what I'd written (The information came from a translation I did about Time newsweek -made by a former staff of Time). I did ignore that the word "kudos" had been used before in English.

As I do not have the original textbook at home, nor my translation, I checked the information again at Internet, and I've found that according to some historians, "kudos" was introduced by Time, but not by Luce. His partner, Britton Haden, had been the "responsible". I quote:

source I:A History of Time, Newsweek, and U.S. News & World Report -Published in the Encyclopedia of International Media and Communcations (Academic Press, 2003)
by David E. Sumner


Hadden created one of Time’s most enduring legacies: an acerbic and irreverent style of writing later dubbed by critics and fans alike as “Timestyle.” Some of Time’s words became familiar part of the language: tycoon, socialite, pundit, kudos, guesstimate, male chauvinist, and televangelist. Other Time creations that didn’t become as popular included: culturecrats, cinemactor, ecofreaks, and Californicate. Time’s executive editor Frank Norris was credited with naming “World War II” in 1939.


Source II The Straight Dope

From the Greek kydos which entered English as British university slang in the early 1800s. It came to America in the 1920s and 1930s, used frequently by Time magazine. In fact, kudos and tycoon are about the last remnants of the Time-style vocabulary that Henry Luce and his cohorts evolved in the early days of that magazine.



That's the only information I have at hand now. I believe that perhaps we are both right: the word kudoshad been previously used in English. But Time popularized it.

Regards,

Clarisa


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Clarisa Moraña  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 23:12
Member (2002)
English to Spanish
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I've found the Time article! Jul 11, 2004

I've found the Time article I had translated! We were both right!
Kudos to the Socialite Nudancer

TIME has long had an inventive way with the English language.

PREVIOUSLY ARCANE WORDS POPULARIZED BY TIME:
tycoon from Japanese for "great ruler"
pundit from Hindi for "learned man"
kudos from Greek for "hear," as in acclamation--i.e., "hear, hear"
smog combining "smoke" and "fog"; first used in San Francisco in 1905


Please, read the whole article. It's quite interesting!

Regards,

Clarisa

[Edited at 2004-07-11 04:42]


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
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And where did the greeks get it? Jul 12, 2004

Probably the word kudos was introduced into Greek from some early Finnish tourist; kiitos = thank you!


[Edited at 2004-07-12 06:36]


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Maisar
Local time: 02:12
Spanish to English
Brown cow Jul 12, 2004

Javier Herrera wrote:

Nice bedtime reading. Thanks for your answers, they've caused a few more questions: how ON EARTH do you pronounce kudoz?
I assume powwow rhymes with 'how about', makes sense. But is the word very widely used in American English? I never heard it in Britain.
Thanks again.


You assume correctly about pronouncing powwow. The word is used in Britain, but has a very old-fashioned feel to it now; the last time I heard a phrase such as "let's have a bit of a powwow" delivered with a straight face was from one of the more decrepit teachers at my school over 20 years ago.


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